Republic
08-21-2009 | 01:44 PM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
From: E170/175 CA
News flash: There are three pilots out of 2100 at RAH that are responsible for negotiating the integration of Midwest, Frontier, Lynx, and Mokulele. Those three pilots are not participants on this message board, meaning that nothing said by a RAH pilot on this board matters, and anything you say to a RAH pilot in regards to how an integration should go matters. Those three have goals and strategies to obtains those goals. None of us will know what their views on fair and equitable are until proposals come out. And like in any negotiation, the initial proposals will likely be exaggerations of the intended outcome. Save the fireworks until there is something to celebrate (or protest).
08-21-2009 | 02:43 PM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: A320 CA
News flash: There are three pilots out of 2100 at RAH that are responsible for negotiating the integration of Midwest, Frontier, Lynx, and Mokulele. Those three pilots are not participants on this message board, meaning that nothing said by a RAH pilot on this board matters, and anything you say to a RAH pilot in regards to how an integration should go matters. Those three have goals and strategies to obtains those goals. None of us will know what their views on fair and equitable are until proposals come out. And like in any negotiation, the initial proposals will likely be exaggerations of the intended outcome. Save the fireworks until there is something to celebrate (or protest).
08-21-2009 | 04:33 PM
#133
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Good were glad to have you. Hopefully with the experience of the guys coming over we can negotiate something that keeps as many people as happy as possible.
MD80 please realize that most everyone over here knows you guys got screwed by the events that unfolded in the last couple years. I haven't met anyone that doesn't want to work with you guys and most FOs realize that in no way should we be benefiting on the backs of more experienced pilots. However I have met no one from MidEx that has been friendly and wants to work with us. When can we expect you guys to realize that and start working with us instead of against us? Until then nothing will get done... This petty arguing and name calling has to end at some point.
MD80 please realize that most everyone over here knows you guys got screwed by the events that unfolded in the last couple years. I haven't met anyone that doesn't want to work with you guys and most FOs realize that in no way should we be benefiting on the backs of more experienced pilots. However I have met no one from MidEx that has been friendly and wants to work with us. When can we expect you guys to realize that and start working with us instead of against us? Until then nothing will get done... This petty arguing and name calling has to end at some point.
We are working with you. We are also fighting for what is ours. (JOBS) You would do the same. I went from being a 13 year captain to the street. Never down grading to first officer. I will fight for what is right. My job back.
08-21-2009 | 04:50 PM
#134
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,738
Likes: 15
Surely, Surely the glaring differences between XJT, ACA, and RAH are extremely noticable even to the most uninformed pilots among us. As it has been said many times before, and I'm sure it will be disregarded even as I say it, because people long for history to repeat itself and for another "branded regional" particularly RAH to fail. Unfortunately for those naysayers among us, history is not being repeated simply because no "regional airline" has done what RAH is attempting to do. They have the brand, they have the name recognition, they have the planes, pilots, ground staff, marketing, and customer base. They have fare structure, route structure, and fuel hedges. They know their landing fees, airport fees, security fees. There are no suprises coming to Republic. What Bedford isnt familiar with, Menke is. What Heller doesnt know, someone in Denver does. What RAH is doing is unprecedented regardless of what you say. Show me a time where a regional airline has ever attempted such an undertaking.
As to United and Delta...most assume that UA is angry and DL is livid. If you were United, what would you rather do...Leave RAH to fend of your biggest threat in DEN (Southwest) or cancel Shuttles contract and automatically have RAH with 36 170's at their immediate disposal to paint in F9 colors and parade out of DEN? Almost effectively doubling Frontiers presence instantaneously? And lets not kidd ourselves, United isnt in a position to leverage a baked potato, not to mention enter a fare war to out price F9 AND Southwest.
Delta on the other hand, is not the suprised spouse either, as it were. I'm sure we would have heard from DL by now if they were all that bothered by RAH actions. After all they tried to do away with Freedom for delayed flights. I'm sure this is a much much more aggregious offense. And yet...silence. Delta's in bed with RAH, no doubt about it.
And just one more thing, Republic has no intentions of branding itself Republic. So all the passengers who are supposedly shying from the tiny carriers will have the opportunity to continue flying "mainline household names" like Midwest and Frontier.
As to United and Delta...most assume that UA is angry and DL is livid. If you were United, what would you rather do...Leave RAH to fend of your biggest threat in DEN (Southwest) or cancel Shuttles contract and automatically have RAH with 36 170's at their immediate disposal to paint in F9 colors and parade out of DEN? Almost effectively doubling Frontiers presence instantaneously? And lets not kidd ourselves, United isnt in a position to leverage a baked potato, not to mention enter a fare war to out price F9 AND Southwest.
Delta on the other hand, is not the suprised spouse either, as it were. I'm sure we would have heard from DL by now if they were all that bothered by RAH actions. After all they tried to do away with Freedom for delayed flights. I'm sure this is a much much more aggregious offense. And yet...silence. Delta's in bed with RAH, no doubt about it.
And just one more thing, Republic has no intentions of branding itself Republic. So all the passengers who are supposedly shying from the tiny carriers will have the opportunity to continue flying "mainline household names" like Midwest and Frontier.
You have Shiny Jet Syndrome (SJS)
08-21-2009 | 10:15 PM
#135
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Wow, didnt mention jets, large jets, small jets, dull jets, shiney jets. Didnt mention, new flying, old flying, long routes and short. Didnt mention taking jobs, merging list, upgrades, downgrades nor staples. Didnt mention new bases, closed bases, or anything of the sort. But somehow you read a FACTUAL opinion, and got "SJS" out of that? Thats very unfortunate. But I'm not suprised, the dumbing down of this board with the little insults, name calling, little side swipes, whining, complaining, pointing fingers, and just being over all childish has taken over even those who used to hold intelligent conversation.
08-22-2009 | 12:02 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: ERJ FO
and you still fly for a regional airline...
pilots are their own worst enemy's'
the day that respectable wages and work rules return to airline flying will be the day that I think about rejoining the ranks.
3825 regional flying..
pilots are their own worst enemy's'
the day that respectable wages and work rules return to airline flying will be the day that I think about rejoining the ranks.
3825 regional flying..
08-22-2009 | 07:48 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Surely, Surely the glaring differences between XJT, ACA, and RAH are extremely noticable even to the most uninformed pilots among us. As it has been said many times before, and I'm sure it will be disregarded even as I say it, because people long for history to repeat itself and for another "branded regional" particularly RAH to fail. Unfortunately for those naysayers among us, history is not being repeated simply because no "regional airline" has done what RAH is attempting to do. They have the brand, they have the name recognition, they have the planes, pilots, ground staff, marketing, and customer base. They have fare structure, route structure, and fuel hedges. They know their landing fees, airport fees, security fees. There are no suprises coming to Republic. What Bedford isnt familiar with, Menke is. What Heller doesnt know, someone in Denver does. What RAH is doing is unprecedented regardless of what you say. Show me a time where a regional airline has ever attempted such an undertaking.
As to United and Delta...most assume that UA is angry and DL is livid. If you were United, what would you rather do...Leave RAH to fend of your biggest threat in DEN (Southwest) or cancel Shuttles contract and automatically have RAH with 36 170's at their immediate disposal to paint in F9 colors and parade out of DEN? Almost effectively doubling Frontiers presence instantaneously? And lets not kidd ourselves, United isnt in a position to leverage a baked potato, not to mention enter a fare war to out price F9 AND Southwest.
Delta on the other hand, is not the suprised spouse either, as it were. I'm sure we would have heard from DL by now if they were all that bothered by RAH actions. After all they tried to do away with Freedom for delayed flights. I'm sure this is a much much more aggregious offense. And yet...silence. Delta's in bed with RAH, no doubt about it.
And just one more thing, Republic has no intentions of branding itself Republic. So all the passengers who are supposedly shying from the tiny carriers will have the opportunity to continue flying "mainline household names" like Midwest and Frontier.
As to United and Delta...most assume that UA is angry and DL is livid. If you were United, what would you rather do...Leave RAH to fend of your biggest threat in DEN (Southwest) or cancel Shuttles contract and automatically have RAH with 36 170's at their immediate disposal to paint in F9 colors and parade out of DEN? Almost effectively doubling Frontiers presence instantaneously? And lets not kidd ourselves, United isnt in a position to leverage a baked potato, not to mention enter a fare war to out price F9 AND Southwest.
Delta on the other hand, is not the suprised spouse either, as it were. I'm sure we would have heard from DL by now if they were all that bothered by RAH actions. After all they tried to do away with Freedom for delayed flights. I'm sure this is a much much more aggregious offense. And yet...silence. Delta's in bed with RAH, no doubt about it.
And just one more thing, Republic has no intentions of branding itself Republic. So all the passengers who are supposedly shying from the tiny carriers will have the opportunity to continue flying "mainline household names" like Midwest and Frontier.
Thought your post was right on. Here's a analysis take on things...
For those of you who don’t remember, ACA flew CRJs for United. ACA didn’t like the deal that United offered them, so they decided to go out on their own and re-brand themselves as Independence Air, with a hub out of Dulles. The airline ended up shutting down in 2006. Is Republic’s situation all that similar? I’m going to say “no.”
Most importantly, ACA was only flying for United, while Republic flies for many carriers, so they will continue to earn revenue from their regional flights. Right now, it appears that Frontier and Midwest will continue operating as separate brands, at least in the short term. (Who knows what Republic’s long-term plan is?) But, assuming Republic uses these purchases to go its own way, it’s still different than Indepdence, and two major differences come to mind.
First, the article seems to suggest that one factor in Independence’s failure is that it was new to the mainline business, but this isn’t the case with Republic’s acquisitions with Frontier and Midwest (assuming that everything goes swimmingly with those purchases, specifically in bankruptcy court in Frontier’s case), Republic is acquiring mainline carriers with experience, not going out on their own with no prior knowledge to work with.
Second, another issue with ACA/Independence was its fleet mix. Initially, the airline was stuck with CRJ-200s, which aren’t exactly the most economical aircraft. Pair that with a fare war with United out of Dulles and you get a pretty bad mix. Meanwhile, Republic just acquired a bunch of Airbus aircraft from Frontier. Independence started using A319s, and from what I remember, those routes were doing pretty well, but it was too late to save the airline once they got going.
So, that’s why I think Republic’s situation is very different.
08-22-2009 | 08:18 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Who's airline is it? I think that's one of the largest barriers that needs to be broken down for things to move smoothly. You have to admit that you're part of a family now and "me me me" should be replaced with "us us us".
Bear392 if you haven't seen anyone wanting DOH do a search on users 320toBearz for starters.
Bear392 if you haven't seen anyone wanting DOH do a search on users 320toBearz for starters.
08-22-2009 | 08:42 AM
#139
Banned
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 0
Feelings on a regional flying E-190s aside I'd be cautious about joining Republic's ranks. They're walking into a snake pit directly competing in the airline markets. Just thinking they'll have a competitive advantage using regional pilots and aircraft on mainline routes may not be enough. After all, majors like United can leverage strength in other markets like international to bring down prices in DEN and MKE. And lets not forget Southwest who has been beating down Frontier and Midwest for years.
Republic might have a strong cash position now but so did Independence and XJT before their venture into operating their own brands.
Republic might have a strong cash position now but so did Independence and XJT before their venture into operating their own brands.
08-22-2009 | 08:47 AM
#140
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Your information is incorrect. I want you stapled below ALL midwest pilots in MKE domicile (ie super seniority for Midwest crews at MKE and super seniority for all F9 crews in DEN) in terms of bidding and seats. The total seniority list should be ratioed ignoring any furlough situation from any of the three lists being integrated. I have stated this time and time again. I cannot help it that you continue to use and ask for the TWA integration as what you want, but do not understand HOW that integration worked as it gave TWA pilots super seniority in STL and also gave them a lock of a certain percentage of the captains slots in STL based on the total number of narrowbody aircraft American flies in certain other domiciles (DFW and ORD if I am not mistaken).
Thanks.
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