Heck, why not make it 5000 hours PIC turbine. Then there would never be another accident.

Numbers are just that, numbers. Arbitrary lines in the sand only ease the worries of those who create them and they often do no easing.

We had this discussion back in July, but those who think higher minimums will cause higher pay are kidding themselves. There is no relation between the two.

The job market will dictate what the hiring minimums will be. Airlines, although poorly run, are businesses out to make money. They are not going to artificially remain contracted and ignore demand. They're going to offer flights to meet the supply. Unless restricted by law, they're going to hire the pilots necessary to do that.

Higher minimums are fine with me, but this utopian belief they will lead to safer flight and higher pay is not realistic.

 

How come the majors still have crashes?Dont they have more than 1500 hours?Stop blaming the "nembies" for getting a job when the time was right.

 

We are talking about FO's here and not Capt's right? Why does the FO need to have 2500 or 5000 hours? He isnt the PIC.

You guys talk about hours. But ithink it has more to do with competency. The military takes a young 22 year old second Lieutenanat with about 200 hours of flight time and trains him to fly F-15's and C-130's. So how does flight time equate to a better pilot? I think the military puts out some the best pilots in the world and they start off with a little over 200 hours of total time.

However I do agree that 1500 hours is a good starting place if thats what they want to do.

 

I'm not sure how to take the tone of your post, but is it really necessary to have two sets of years picking up a clearance? That was my whole point - that as an FO you should know how to pick it up and be able to set-up for that clearance without having to have your hand held! By the time you make it to an airline, there are certain porcedures that should be able to be accomplished without consulting the AIM, methinks!

 

I was hired with 320 hours total and 50 multi back in 2007 to fly a DHC8. Systems training and FMS lab were easy if you studied and they were interesting. If you studied you were fine no matter what your experience level was. If you didn’t study, you shouldn’t have accepted the job.

The sim training and 121 checkride were very challenging for me. I passed first time but spent all of my free time practicing with my assigned CA who had zero time in the DHC8. He was moving from a 1900. He had never seen the flows or touched an a/c that he was to be PIC of just 10 days later.

The cockpit posters were pretty torn up by the end of my sim training.

My sim CA had over 2000 total and 1200 in the 1900. Over a year of experience flying 121 and is a smart guy. He had trouble as well as I and by the third sim session we decided to devote all of our efforts to becoming successful.

We did it, but I was left feeling that the airlines have a lot to improve in how they train pilots for aircraft that are new to them. I also think it’s a bad idea to have a CA with zero hours become PIC (IOE and line checks should not be a CA’s first hours in an a/c).

121 needs to train ABOVE the minimum standards set forth by the FAA, more time to practice emergencies, landing in strong winds, etc. Total time in your a/c (your office) is what will make a safer pilot. Pilot pay should be a combination of time in type and seniority in the system.

As far as pilot mins, quality is much more important than total time to me. Number of approaches, landings and a grading system by CFIs or your safety pilots should be logged to build a proper history of a pilot’s abilities.

121 crew pairing also needs to be addressed. Pair the CA’s with more hours with the lower hour FO and vise-versa. Safe crew pairing should come before seniority when the schedule is created.

The public wants to be safe but raising the hiring hours won’t create safety. The airlines attitude towards training needs to change.

 

I just wanted to say that hull insurance is what drives most of the hiring requirements, not necessarily the airlines.

I'm paying more for insurance than I am on the leases of our twin turbines, and its a scary amount!

(and yes, our minimums are at 1500 for the right seat in a twin turbine, left seat has to have ATP + 4 year degree now)

 

Training is great, but no substitute for experience. Instead of looking at total hrs to fill the experience box. Greater attention should be paid to their work history. Especially those who have experience in the PIC/IFR world.

 

Good point! I'm wondering how one cannot get insurance flying a Citation without 3000hrs and 100 in type but Regionals were upgrading guys at 2500 in RJ's, or in Renslow's case 3000+ but no time in type. I'm guessing that they pay up the rear for insurance.

 

Just a guess, but I believe the "hand holding" that goes into 121 (flight planning, constant contact with dispatch, etc) goes a long way into comforting insurance companies when it comes to lower time guys in the cockpit.

You are a little bit more isolated in the corporate world.

 

Make the schools have more stringent requirements. Places like All ATP's, Gulfstream Academy, etc. These places are "pilot factories" and will give you a rating if you are willing to pay for it. Any place that can take you from zero hours to the right seat of an airliner in less than 12 months is not teaching you what you need to know to be safe and competent. The Colgan crash happened because the pilots lacked the basic skills required to fly an aircraft. The captain pulled back without adding power to recover from a stall for crying-out-loud.