Hot Rod Wannabe

Think about the A/C as well. The profile was being followed, but loss of sit awarness was key. Everyone is going to slam the pilots, and some blame is deserved. But don't forget the environment as well. Severe Icing forecast and SLD was present. The co-pilot was jabbering like a monkey about the ice build up. If the had all ice protection on and they were still picking up ice, then it was SLD period. In any event it should have been, "get the heck" out of there. The captian didn't notice that the A/C slowed because the auto pilot had trimmed the airplane tail to a maximum nose up position and when the pilots received the shaker the capt slammed the throttles forward producing a 20 degree nose up... remember the auto pilot trimmed max nose up based on power settings. Then the airplaned stalled probably tucked a wing due to ice again and well the rest we know. It is easy to second guess but situationally the crew was way behind and it bit them. I'm sure the new legislation will all make us safer in the end. I'm sure 1500 hours will make all pilots bullet proof and able to save all passengers from terrible accidents from ever happening. I wonder why ALPA signed off on the new HR 3371 so fast?

yamahas3

The point being there is a threshold where a bad pilot in the cockpit is no longer the pilot's fault and becomes the airline's fault. That captain should've never been flying an airliner around. It is quite apparently that he lacked the skill and natural ability to do so safely. But, Colgan still put him there, can you blame him for taking that opportunity?

If Colgan put a monkey in the cockpit and the plane crashed, would anyone really be saying "This crash was due to the monkey's lack of ability to promptly and correctly respond to the stick shaker?" No. Its Colgan's fault for putting that monkey in the cockpit in the first place.

You take an airline that has the desire to do nothing more than fill seats at the least possible cost (quality of selection, depth of training, etc) and couple that with a system that, through inadequate regulations and oversight, leaves it almost entirely up to the airline to determine that the people in the seats are qualified.... and this is the situation you end up with.

People died because this crew screwed up, but this is really to the point where its a lot more about who is being put in the cockpit by these shady operators. Theres a big difference between this one and an otherwise competent qualified crew making one isolated fatal mistake and blaming it on pilot error.

Purpleanga

Ok and on the other hand Colgan hired a squeaky clean FO CFI which anyone would have hired that raised the flaps at 20 degrees pitch up during a stall when she should have been beating on the guy severly to get the nose over to pick up airspeed. This is what I mean by freak accident. Where do we draw the line between incompetent and competent? Because both sides can be argued in the crash. I am tired of everyone blaming regional pilots for this crash when they should just be blaming this crew, change the training standards and be done with it.

2muchfr8time

why blame the company ?

the material covered in ground school is not everything you need to know, sometimes you as a pilot have to take responsibility and go beyond whats required and study outside the box.

no doubt this accident could have been avoided had the chain been broken somewhere, but it was not.

I'm sure it was not the intention of the crew to crash this plane, sometimes in the heat of battle the wrong choice is made.

Rather than bash people, lets learn from this and we can all be better pilots

FlyJSH

Wow. Tell us how you really feel.

He short cut the system the like anyone else who took a job without having an ATP.

Preach all you want, but Colgan's pilots and procedures were accepted by the FAA, just like every other airline. Since 99% of businesses will seek the lowest common denominator, the only way to increase quality is through regulation: H.R. 3371. Because even if Colgan went away today, there would be some other demon spawn to take over.

Cycle Pilot

Have you read something different from the NTSB than I have? You're trying to blame the aircraft? 100% of the blame goes on the pilots and when the NTSB comes out with their final report, I'm sure you'll see the same. Two other aircraft went through that area and showed no signs of severe icing. Adding power in a high wing turboprop aircraft does not cause the nose to pitch up. Rather it pitches down due to the centerline of thrust being above the aircraft CG. Plus, the Captain never did add full power. I remember from the video that the power got to around 80-90%. The airplane DIDN'T stall due to ice... it stalled because of a loss of airspeed and improper stall recovery techniques. These improper techniques include, pulling back on the yoke, not adding full power, retracting the flaps, not maintaining coordinated fllight, and disregarding/overriding the stall protection system. These were all basic flying 101 pre-private pilot issues.

Not to mention, they were also distracted with non-essential communication between each other all the way from their departure airport on a pretty short flight. Reference the CVR... the Captain didn't even adjust his seat for the approach until he was on a last vector for the ILS. They were still chatting in bad weather at night on an ILS 2 minutes before the crash!

Loss of situational awareness due to the aircraft? Do you have time in an RJ or Q400? All the information you need for situational awareness is right in front of you on one screen! You don't even have to guess where you'll get stick shaker because the low speed cue shows up right on your speed tape. They didn't even fully stall the aircraft until they were around 100 KIAS and the F.O. had retracted the flaps!

This crash had NOTHING to do with the aircraft. If you think it did, then you are really living in denial... sorry.

FlyJSH

"Not to mention, they were also distracted with non-essential communication between each other all the way from their departure airport on a pretty short flight. Reference the CVR... the Captain didn't even adjust his seat for the approach until he was on a last vector for the ILS. They were still chatting in bad weather at night on an ILS 2 minutes before the crash!"

I confess I have broken the sterile cockpit rules. So did Sully prior to landing in the Hudson. I do not condone such behavior, but have you EVER broken sterile cockpit? If so, but for the grace of the almighty, we could be blaming you for the loss if life.

johnso29

Nevermind.....it doesn't matter.

John Pennekamp

WE HAVE A WINNER!

JoeyMeatballs

The best part is how they explain the F/O's salaray at $23,000 a year and thinking it's acceptable.