Well that or when people stop signing up. I think most of us signed up for this gig with the assumption that we'd be able to make a living flying. I think the word is out now and that's at least one reason why flight schools are so empty versus the last aviation recession (post-9/11).

What we have to do now is to make sure that when things do improve they can't just get some high school flunkies to take a 6 month course and come in and take the low wages. That's where the ATP thing comes in. If you want to fly and airliner, you need to be a professional and the time and effort required to obtain an ATP should help in that matter. If the FAA has other ideas as far as changing training or certification standards then that's even better. The nice thing about the ATP rule is it's nice and easy to legislate and still goes a long way for our cause.

If all goes well Age 65 will run it's course and the demand for pilots will resume. However, this time hopefully the airlines will have to work like every other company hiring professionals and have to pay to compete for the qualified pilot. Not as it has been for the last 10 years or so and have pilots compete for the scarce jobs out there.

 

Absolutely correct. I have been preaching this for 5 years. If we can get an ATP mandated for 121 ops it will be the best thing to happen for pilots in years. Why isn't mighty ALPA shouting that low time pilot's are unsafe from the rooftops? They are too scared of upsetting some of the 700 hour ALPA pilots.

 

Testimony today:
YouTube - HouseTransInf's Channel

Vote here:
WashingtonWatch.com - H.R. 3371, The Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement Act of 2009
Your vote is important, my vote changed the results by 1%......

Transportation and Infrastructure Committee: Press Release :: T&I Subcommittee Reviews Safety Program

 

Because government doesn't always have the best and brightest people. I would guess that the best and brightest are in the private sector. So it would make good sense to solicit comments from anyone and everyone. Then take into consideration those comments that make good points.

ALPA has been saying this but in a more diplomatic way than you suggest. And you will see in many threads here how regional pilots are all up in arms for ALPA "throwing them under the bus."

 

On the other hand we have 700hr or less F-18, F-16 etc pilots defending our country. Which leads to the question, is it the low time pilot that's unsafe? Or the training they went thru? Or maybe even the selection process inadequate?

 

Trip7, that is what I was thinking. The military, getting on with foreign carriers,medical jobs, etc. All of them have hurdles, except the regionals.

 

100% correct however the reality of the situation is that you just don't find military guys going into the airlines any more. Civilian outfits are generating pilots that are willing to work for far, far less than the military counterpart with the same or less hours. Therefore, to ensure that the same level of proficiency in an airliner, one of the things to do is to raise the minimum hours. One of the biggest downfalls of the FAA has not been to change regulations to reflect a changing environment. 250 hours to sit right seat was fine in the 1950s when it was all military guys and you were taught to be a great airman before moving over to the left side. Not so much anymore.

 

You are certainly not the first person to make this comparison but that is not a good comparison. In fact there is no comparison. There is a big difference between puddling around in a school C172 or a DA40 single engine airplane at 135 kts for 250 hours and going through intense military flight training in F18s or F16s for 250 hours.

You also mention selection process. There is only one measurable way to raise the selction process without involving subjective judgment of individual interviewers. Raise the minimums to even apply for Part 121 jobs. ATP should be the bare minimum. The payrate should be adjusted accordingly.

 

I agree with the min. time increase (to ATP min.), but my question is, why would pay go up? When I was hired, the minimums at my airline were 1200 TT and 200 multi. The pay scale now is the same as it was then, but in the past year and a half, people were hired at 240 TT. So, if raised back to 1500 TT, the airlines would probably just keep the same pay. After all, we took that pay a few years ago when they wanted 1200 TT.

 

You are absolutely right. I said payrate should be adjusted. I did not say it will go up. Airline management will pay as little as they can get away with it. At XJ people used to need 1500 hours to just apply. In 2008 during the last hiring spree, they hired a few 19 to 22 year olds with 250 to 300 hours straight from UND, Embry Riddle etc with zero professional flying experience. I mean not even CFI experience. Largest aircraft they flew was a school seminole and now they were being trained to fly a 76 seat jet. And now XJ is furloughing quite a few of those guys because XJ is shrinking due to Saabs being parked in large numbers.

Payrate will not go up unless airlines are regulated by the government but that is not going to happen.

Hiring standard needs to go up. ATP, 1500 hours and documented part 135 or CFI experience and a college degree should be the minimum.