Both Trans States and Chautauqua had TWE contracts with large severence penalties. When AA bought TWA, they chose to keep the former TWE contracts instead of absorbing the cost of severance.

That decision might have "screwed" Eagle, but it was a decision by AMR management based solely upon cost. CHQ & TSA pilots didn't get together and say "how can we steal Eagle's flying?" I'm pretty sure AX jet flying hasn't grown much (although markets have changed) while Eagle has grown every year since 9/11. If you Eagle guys want somebody to be ****ed at, blame the flushbAAcks.

Funny how some folks never seem to respond to statements like that.

 

No you are wrong. But I will forgive you, since your were most likely in High School when all this happened.

It had not one thing to do with severence penalties.

The TWA / AA acquisition had one big stipulation on it. That AMR buys TWA in bankruptcy court. AMR wanted this so that ALL PREEXISTING CONTRACTS could be null and void. AMR chose to keep TWE carriers b/c they were cheaper to operate than AE. They could have got rid of them like all the other vendors they chose to drop.


So it is ok to screw anyone long as it is not you? You don't think every company makes decisions solely based on cost? The whole reason that you are an "airline pilot" today is b/c you fly your emb for 5x's less then I fly a 737.

Son you are very pipely and have alot to learn in life!!!

 

Okay, I can admit it if I was/am wrong. Please educate me, o benovelent Skygod.

So what then about the clause in Chautauqua's contract that if American cancels the contract prior to its end (2013 I believe) they have to eat the cost of all the 140s? Of course its cheaper to operate a current contract than absorb the cost of a bunch of airplanes!

Nope, never said it was okay to screw anybody, and I don't work for Trans States or Chautauqua so that is a moot point as well. We could argue about how AA screwed TWA pilots, but that horse has been beaten so long ago its not even important. Same can be said about the flushbAAcks taking all the upgrades at Eagle.

I'm not in any of the sandboxes mentioned, I just think its asinine for some pilots to say "hey Eagle got screwed by Trans States, so its okay for GoJet to screw them". That logic fails the WTF test every single time.

Thanks for the lesson, dad. I'll keep it in mind

 

That contract was between AMR and CHQ. Signed in 2000 and expires in 2010. It has nothing to do with TWA/TWE.

 

You obviously lack a basic understanding of debate and I fear it will do no good to continue. I'm not chicken to let everyone know what I think. What I think is that you can not go around labeling what I particular job is worth. It is worth a different salary, set of work rules, etc. to each individual to each situation. While flying a jet for x amount of dollars may be worth it to person y, that doesn't mean it is worth it to person z. Person z cannot say to person y, "you are being paid crap", or "your hours suck". That job also might not be worth it anymore after a few years to person y. It's just so dynamic. That was my point.

 

That has nothing to do with any TWE contract prior to the TWA acquisition. I'm pretty sure that contract was signed by AMR (and fought against by the union) AFTER the TWA fiasco. Therefore, it was a contract that AMR entered into, not one they absorbed via TWA. And like JiffyLube said, AMR got TWA AFTER bankruptcy in order to shed ALL debt and vendor contracts that they did not want. Why do you think that anyone who had TWA stock got ZERO for it when AMR took over?

Then why do you even argue the issue if you don't or never have had a dog in that fight? Also, I'm not a big AA supporter, but the TWA guys really are lucky to even have a job. If AA didn't come along and no one financed TWA (which I'm pretty sure would have been the case) those folks would have been on the street. How is getting a job, and in some cases getting a regional jet Captain job with more pay than at TWA a bad deal? Please explain that? Lastly on this point, some if not all Eagle guys (FOs really) are ****ed about the flowbacks, but that is the union and pilot group's fault for allowing it to happen the way it did.

Then what is your motivation to argue your points, and how can you competently discuss/debate the issues of AA/Eagle/TWA/TWEs if you have never been "in any of the sandboxes". Obviously you can't by your lack of knowledge of what went down with the whole AMR/TWA thing.

You are very miss informed about the whole "alter ego" - Connection carriers, and the TWA acquisition. While I don't agree with the whole GoJets deal, I really don't feel too bad for TSA guys or any other Connection carrier that has flying handed to a lower paying "vendor". What goes around comes around. Not that its right or moral, but it is business and to have the cojones to b!tch about what is being done to TSA when they do the same to others is just hypocritical.

 

Yep I got your point and I'm not debating with you. You got very bunchy with Flyer00 about what pilots should be paid and you wanted to know what he thought so you could make your life decision. I came back and asked you what you think pilots should be paid. You didn't and came back with the everyone is different speech, which I get. I just wanted to know what you believed. Just so that we have this straight, there is no debate going on now. That could only happen if you answered my original question so I'll ask it again. What do you believe you are worth to fly different airplanes?

 

believes he is worth what ever blojets pays him... No more, no less... And it was /is worth the risk of working with no contract for no negociated wages in a new market for a morally corrupt/bankrupt owner. And all that righteous swill, the "They voted the flying down", "We are strong men with honor forging a new and unexplored path in the face of adversity" and the other crap that they have posted are just more defensive tactics to deflect the fact that they are not scabs, but replacement workers catching crap for being the new lost cause on these boards....... As I understand it, TSA voted the CONDITIONS down, not the flying.... In my 12 years of military service, men of honor stood up for what they considered right and didn't shy away from others when they were questioned. They forged paths that made it easier for others to get ahead, not to step on the backs of those who got there first. But hey, it all goes back to the old "I had to feed my family".....But there are and always will be other jobs out there... No need to take the first one that seems to be an easy way, a "Direct path to a jet job"... I am sure there are a million guys out there who would agree that dues paying is a necessary evil, but shortcuts are great. But in the long run, they cost us all by letting owners get away with cheap wages for what is, ultimately, a complicated job... And the lower we all go, from the regionals to the majors, the less this career becomes worth...I know this isn't the military, but codes of honor and ethics still have a place. This is the airlines, and we all know that many would eat their own young to get into one of those silver bullets, but at what point do you say enough. We all are worth more than this and need to get the esteem and wages back up. I left the regionals a few years ago, but it deeply saddens me that this is still a backsliding industry. Gojets is only the latest tumor in an already cancer riddled industry... I hope this all stops soon and we can all be proud of our chosen profession as well as our paycheck... Because people looked at me like a moron when I told them what I made... And, aside from being a moron sometimes anyway, I look back and finally see they were right...

 

sheet, hifly is a gojet pilot. that explains alot.

 

GoJet is an alter-ego airline and it has been from it's very beginning. You can't say that about any other airline in this discussion. -That's- the difference. And GJ would not exist if not for the scum who decided that their bank accounts were more important than their ethics and morals.