Prevent Whipsaw: One Pilot Group(XJT/ASA/SKW)
08-27-2010 | 06:46 AM
#111
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captain tony, well said on all posts. Bravo. Looks like the express jet MEC has made a level headed cool calm and collected decision. Looks like Nevets and friends are in the mi nority. looking forward to the merger.
08-27-2010 | 06:49 AM
#112
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An XJET pilot is on FI saying that the union has announced its ready to forgo one list and move forward with the two way merger, as long as there's the whipsaw protection already present in the ASA contract.
So obviously, Nevets is in the minority and cooler heads are in charge.
So obviously, Nevets is in the minority and cooler heads are in charge.
08-27-2010 | 08:31 AM
#113
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From: EMB 145 CPT
Nevets, what you and your buddies don't seem to "get" is that this is a job, not a fraternity. Do I care more about feeding my family than I do about "upholding the profession" as ALPA puts it? You're darn right I do! In fact, that's why ALPA is structured as independent MECs under their umbrella. You fight your fight, I'll fight my fight. But when your fight threatens to negatively impact my career and my ability to provide for my family, YOU become the target!
As I said many times, we were fine before this merger was proposed and we will be fine without it. But I am NOT going to welcome you guys with open arms so you can come in and burn down my company with your anti management spew.
For a long time at ASA, it was "us vs. them". We had a horrible management team, and ALPA carried a big stick and towed a hard line the entire time Delta owned us. It was mutually assured destruction. And the company stagnated. SkyWest came in and showed us that everyone is happy when management and labor work together, and the company prospers. Of course we need protections in our contract, but grabbing the company by the cajones just because you can is never a good idea. What's good for the company is also good for us, because our careers depend on the long turm survival and profitability of the company! but too many ALPA groups don't get that. They want to rape the company at every opportunity and get everything they can. We're not like that anymore. And we don't want 2800 pilots coming over who are. Again, that's bad for MY career.
Yes, I'm looking out for number one. Sorry to disappoint you, but ALPA is my career insurance, not a fraternity. Good luck with your decision to take the deal or leave it.
As I said many times, we were fine before this merger was proposed and we will be fine without it. But I am NOT going to welcome you guys with open arms so you can come in and burn down my company with your anti management spew.
For a long time at ASA, it was "us vs. them". We had a horrible management team, and ALPA carried a big stick and towed a hard line the entire time Delta owned us. It was mutually assured destruction. And the company stagnated. SkyWest came in and showed us that everyone is happy when management and labor work together, and the company prospers. Of course we need protections in our contract, but grabbing the company by the cajones just because you can is never a good idea. What's good for the company is also good for us, because our careers depend on the long turm survival and profitability of the company! but too many ALPA groups don't get that. They want to rape the company at every opportunity and get everything they can. We're not like that anymore. And we don't want 2800 pilots coming over who are. Again, that's bad for MY career.
Yes, I'm looking out for number one. Sorry to disappoint you, but ALPA is my career insurance, not a fraternity. Good luck with your decision to take the deal or leave it.
We at XJT know fell well what its like to work at a good company with a management that was fair. That has changed. We know how to work with a management that doesnt blatantly trample our contract. We are not a group that ever wanted to kill the golden goose. You have a misconception of us because your CEO is not treating us with dignity and respect, not because we like to burn the place down for no reason.
If this gets shoved down our throats, it wont be the ASA pilots we will be disgruntled with. You would have to thank your CEO for that outcome.
We are all looking out for number one, of course. We just have a difference of opinion on how to go about doing that.
That is incorrect. Its public records from the exective council minutes. They spent about $300k. The $5M figure is what the executive council has allocated to organizing in general.
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
No it isn't. If he accepted that one list is inevitable, he wouldn't have gone to the trouble to let ASA buy them, as an end run of the scope. He would have ponied up and just merged all three. His outlook has not changed. Also, he's not bluffing as many seem to think. Jerry recognizes that challenging the scope section will certainly go to arbitration, which takes up to a year. Nothing with the merger can happen until that matter is settled. It is grossly financially disadvantageous to wait that long to even start the integration, much less reap the synergies it brings. This is why he's willing to walk away.
An XJET pilot is on FI saying that the union has announced its ready to forgo one list and move forward with the two way merger, as long as there's the whipsaw protection already present in the ASA contract.
So obviously, Nevets is in the minority and cooler heads are in charge.
So obviously, Nevets is in the minority and cooler heads are in charge.
08-27-2010 | 08:38 AM
#114
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From: EMB 145 CPT
A lot of people at ASA see the benefits of this merger, but if it doesn't go through we'll be just as content. I understand that everyone at XJT wants to uphold their contract, but from what I've read you guys are getting awfully defensive. You do realize that another company is acquiring your airline and attempting to position you for a long bright future, or maybe you don't.
Obviously your CEO thinks we bring great value to Inc since this is the second time in two years he is trying to buy us. Otherwise he would just wait til chapter 7 and buy us on a fire sale. So dont act like we wouldn't bring anything to the table because we wouldn't be so sought after by our CEO if we werent. Your managment has spelled out all the benefits they gain by buying us. They did it on the earnings call for all investors to hear. So its not like we are worthless. This positions Inc for a long bright future as well.
I wish he just either honored our contract or just stop playing this corporate shinanigan games!
08-27-2010 | 08:42 AM
#115
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Hmmm. Well good luck to all those involved, including you Captain Tony. 
From this point on I'm just gonna watch with my popcorn.
BTW, Jimmy Buffett rocks!! I'm a Parrothead for life. At least we can agree on something.
Gotta love the Last Mango in Paris.....I went down to Captain Tony's to get out of the heat/I heard a voice call out to me/Son come have a seat.......
Man Buffett always takes me back to college. So much fun.
From this point on I'm just gonna watch with my popcorn. BTW, Jimmy Buffett rocks!! I'm a Parrothead for life. At least we can agree on something.
Gotta love the Last Mango in Paris.....I went down to Captain Tony's to get out of the heat/I heard a voice call out to me/Son come have a seat.......
Man Buffett always takes me back to college. So much fun.
08-27-2010 | 08:51 AM
#116
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What I'm saying is that why are ASA guys even in this discussion? Especially if you will be fine without us like you say, which I don't disagree with. We want to uphold our contract! Why is that a problem with you? Its JA that is trying to screw us again. We want to uphold our scope section. He wants to trample it. Our careers have been negatively affected becuase of other pilot groups caving on scope. You got to look at the big picture here and do whats best for the profession because that is whats going to be good for our own personal careers in the long term. If we sell out for short term gains, we will be in the same boat as mainline pilots when they sold out scope for whatever carrot management put in front of their faces. Now we are all paying for it.
We at XJT know fell well what its like to work at a good company with a management that was fair. That has changed. We know how to work with a management that doesnt blatantly trample our contract. We are not a group that ever wanted to kill the golden goose. You have a misconception of us because your CEO is not treating us with dignity and respect, not because we like to burn the place down for no reason.
If this gets shoved down our throats, it wont be the ASA pilots we will be disgruntled with. You would have to thank your CEO for that outcome.
We are all looking out for number one, of course. We just have a difference of opinion on how to go about doing that.
That is incorrect. Its public records from the exective council minutes. They spent about $300k. The $5M figure is what the executive council has allocated to organizing in general.
That is not what he is doing. He did it this way because he has nothing to lose by trying to trample our contract. If the arbitrator sides with him or we cave, he has lost nothing. If not, he can walk away.
I have no idea if I'm in the minority. I've said multiple times I only speak for myself. But that is not what is going on in the MEC. I was on the MEC last time we told JA to pound sand. After he and BR gave their little powerpoint presentation to us, we took a quick straw poll and not one rep was for what they were proposing. Yet we still met with him in LAS. That is exactly what is going on here. The MEC will listen and negotiate until there is a stand off, then they will make their decision on that last best offer.
We at XJT know fell well what its like to work at a good company with a management that was fair. That has changed. We know how to work with a management that doesnt blatantly trample our contract. We are not a group that ever wanted to kill the golden goose. You have a misconception of us because your CEO is not treating us with dignity and respect, not because we like to burn the place down for no reason.
If this gets shoved down our throats, it wont be the ASA pilots we will be disgruntled with. You would have to thank your CEO for that outcome.
We are all looking out for number one, of course. We just have a difference of opinion on how to go about doing that.
That is incorrect. Its public records from the exective council minutes. They spent about $300k. The $5M figure is what the executive council has allocated to organizing in general.
That is not what he is doing. He did it this way because he has nothing to lose by trying to trample our contract. If the arbitrator sides with him or we cave, he has lost nothing. If not, he can walk away.
I have no idea if I'm in the minority. I've said multiple times I only speak for myself. But that is not what is going on in the MEC. I was on the MEC last time we told JA to pound sand. After he and BR gave their little powerpoint presentation to us, we took a quick straw poll and not one rep was for what they were proposing. Yet we still met with him in LAS. That is exactly what is going on here. The MEC will listen and negotiate until there is a stand off, then they will make their decision on that last best offer.
I'd say you guys DID kill the golden goose, and it was probably the MEC you claim you were part of! Your contract is unprofitable for the company. Your 50 seat rates are close to our 70/90 rates!
As for how I judge your group, my oinion is from working directly with Reps from XJET at ALPA functions like the BOD. I know what hardliners you guys are. And As I said before, the midget leprechaun on the bar was tacky.
Regarding the SkyWest drive [edit: I forget this is a public board that anyone, even guests can read. I don't feel like being subpoenaed for what I just said, but I sent you a private message... sufficient to say, the money was hidden and it wasn't difficult.CT]
08-27-2010 | 09:12 AM
#118
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From: right for a long, long time
As for how I judge your group, my oinion is from working directly with Reps from XJET at ALPA functions like the BOD. I know what hardliners you guys are. And As I said before, the midget leprechaun on the bar was tacky.
Regarding the SkyWest drive [edit: I forget this is a public board that anyone, even guests can read. I don't feel like being subpoenaed for what I just said, but I sent you a private message... sufficient to say, the money was hidden and it wasn't difficult.CT
Regarding the SkyWest drive [edit: I forget this is a public board that anyone, even guests can read. I don't feel like being subpoenaed for what I just said, but I sent you a private message... sufficient to say, the money was hidden and it wasn't difficult.CT
The elected leaders at XJT have a responsibility to protect and enhance the careers of its pilots, and enforcing the terms of the CBA is how a Union goes about accomplishing that goal.
BTW, XJTALPA and XJT MGT have a LONG history of working together and playing well with each other(some recent events notwithstanding), so it is VERY likely that you will see the union be extremely team oriented with a new management, as long as that respect is a two-way street.
08-27-2010 | 09:26 AM
#119
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Don't blame JA and company. Blame your MEC.. I hope you as a group get to vote on it... Inc. nows how to make money, There plan is Two airlines, thats how they plan on making money. If you guys don't like the offer then say no... Thats why I would like to see a vote.. Becuase I would bet "Nevejets and buddys" realy are the minority..
08-27-2010 | 09:52 AM
#120
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
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From: B757/767
Don't blame JA and company. Blame your MEC.. I hope you as a group get to vote on it... Inc. nows how to make money, There plan is Two airlines, thats how they plan on making money. If you guys don't like the offer then say no... Thats why I would like to see a vote.. Becuase I would bet "Nevejets and buddys" realy are the minority..
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