Ummm... Wrong.

I'm not junior, and scope is #1. I have yet to meet a pilot at UAL that doesn't think the same. The Aer Lingus deal woke up the rest of the sleeping folks.
If you are using your "scope was sold" argument as your marking your words point, you might want to review how CH 11 went down for the UAL pilots. Here were the options; 1) accept the crappy scope clause we got. 2) turn down the contract, and risk the judge rubber stamping an 1113c contract that had ZERO scope in it. What would you have done? Try getting NO scope back in the bag!

We will see, but your assessment of UAL pilots is, well, wrong.

 

I don't disagree. My comments were mostly referring to DALPA, who sold scope long before any bankruptcies were even on the horizon.

You guys at CAL/UAL MAY hold the line at 50, but I doubt it. More than likely, you'll allow a limited number of 70 in exchange for concessions from management.

But mark my words, you will NOT eliminate all brand RJ flying.

 

What the he!l does it matter if any group "SOLD" their scope other than it makes some justified in their attitude now. It was a mistake and the tide is turning. The day of the 50 seat RJ is OVER, just listen to any analyst and see where everything is going. Saying that all brand RJ flying will not be eliminated is a joke. Who the heck cares when it is reduced by 50-75%? What is the point, it will never be the same.

What I sense here is a "spoiled" group who are sensing the party is over. Sorry to sound harsh but there are A LOT of nervous sounding RJ drivers in this thread. Good news is the majors will be hiring in droves, submit an application and come on over!

KC

 

spoiled? Im not. QOL and my pay at the "regional" level are far from spoiled. You are right, hopefully this results in more mainline jobs, where there jets belong in the first place!

 

Spot on. Scope is no longer for sale, period. The mainline MEC's know that any scope giveback whether actual or perceived will result in all out mutiny.

Captain Tony needs to polish the resume because the days of the "barbie jet" bubble have come and gone. (partly TIC considering his reaction to the term earlier. I can't believe he hasn't heard the term before...)

It's not pulling up the ladder... it's only pulling up the ladder on the ones that have put a glass ceiling over themselves and parked at outsourced feeders for a career, which is never the way it was intended. The wages are half what they should be and that has to stop. I intend on doing everything I can during my career to increase the amount of mainline, top end jobs.

 

I won't disagree that ALL branded RJ flying will be eliminated, but not because it's "sold" by senior folks. I'm guessing management wants to keep it as badly as we want to shed it. It will be THE defining issue of the JCBA.

Your forecast, now that I know what it actually is, has merit. Nobody ever gets everything they want in negotiations, and I expect there to be compromises in all areas.

 

i think bottom line is we all wouldnt mind flyn a rj if we r on mainline seniority list with a new contract!

 

The only really big hurdle is the tightening down scope issue. Does this work in management's favor? Unless mainline pilots are flying the RJ's for regional rates, it doesn't.

 

I hope you guys can do it! and I am a regional pilot that will probably get furlowed because of it. I know you CAL/UAL guys could care less about that but in all honesty what do you think you will have to give up to do it. Has your union even given any idea of what it will take. I am just curious because I think there is a whole lot more than just flying at regional pay rates involved. If you have ever looked at a regional contract work rules there is a night and day difference. The bottom line is that crapping on us for both pay and work rules saves a lot of money. Are CAL and UAL guys willing to drop the QOL of their airline just to get all the flying in house. Like I said I hope it will happen, I just am affraid that when the pilot group really sees what they will have to give up to do it that they will start to give up that scope even further.

 

Background: I am a regional pilot who would love to see all flying consolidated among a few players, namely the major/legacy carriers. I feel that our true strength as a union lies in sheer numbers, and the current myriad of competing airlines and competing unions is selling us all short.

My thoughts: It is going to be close to impossible to get the cat back in the bag. CAL/UAL pilots can try to reclaim flying from the regionals, but taking on all that flying will put CAL/UAL at a competitive disadvantage relative to companies like US Airways and American which still have large regional feed operations. I know someone has to start somewhere, and I think the only meaningful first step is going to be to bring all regional fleet types under the major scope at current or very slightly improved pay and work rules for those regionals. Year by year, each major will have to assimilate sub-100 seaters into the mainline contracts. Only once that is done can real pay hikes begin without collapsing. I just don't feel CAL/UAL management will really give in to allowing that perceived disadvantage to exist. Again, I wish you luck. The near term pain for me will be worth it down the road, but I just don't think management will budge so long as every other major competitor is outsourcing. Good luck, though. We truly are all counting on you.