Pinnacle/Colgan/Mesaba TA Countdown
10-04-2010, 11:21 AM
#71
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by lolwut
Many Colgan pilots should remember that the entire Q400 fleet exists due to Colgan's purchase by Pinnacle and the ensuing financing and deal making done by Pinnacle. These Q400s were Pinnacle birds put on the Colgan certificate. Due to this, though paying for the airplanes, Pinnacle pilots suffered 2 years of no growth while Colgan pilots experienced rapid growth/hiring/upgrades. Further, there is potential that thanks to this fleet allotment, a Colgan pilot hired after the purchase by Pinnacle could end up ahead of a Pinnacle pilot on property before the purchase on the new seniority list.
I'm not trying to say anything bad about Colgan guys, I'm just trying to make sure everyone remembers what happened here. Colgan pilots lucked out a whole lot in this deal and those FOs who will be "hosed" probably wouldn't even have a job there in the first place if it weren't for Pinnacle. They're not getting "hosed" - their truly unnaturally high rate of seniority increase is simply going to be brought to more industry average levels.
Pinnacle pilots' hard work bought another airline and then bought that airline dozens of airplanes without getting a single upgrade or newhire out of them for Pinnacle. Now they stand to see these pilots, whos jobs they created, be put ahead of them on the combined seniority list.
Pinnacle pilots are the ones who got hosed.
I'm not trying to say anything bad about Colgan guys, I'm just trying to make sure everyone remembers what happened here. Colgan pilots lucked out a whole lot in this deal and those FOs who will be "hosed" probably wouldn't even have a job there in the first place if it weren't for Pinnacle. They're not getting "hosed" - their truly unnaturally high rate of seniority increase is simply going to be brought to more industry average levels.
Pinnacle pilots' hard work bought another airline and then bought that airline dozens of airplanes without getting a single upgrade or newhire out of them for Pinnacle. Now they stand to see these pilots, whos jobs they created, be put ahead of them on the combined seniority list.
Pinnacle pilots are the ones who got hosed.
Oops!
10-04-2010, 11:43 AM
#72
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,525
The only thing the past is good for is teaching up what not to do in the future and what to watch now. Each and every group can arrange FACTS to put an EMOTIONAL pull towards some kind of tilted "aid" in senority/fences/a contract. That serves NO purpose going forward. Each group is established, each group brings ALPA pilots to the deal, and each group has vested interest in the success of all 3,000 in the group. If everyone is looked after we are all also helping ourselves.
10-04-2010, 12:54 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
Originally Posted by Purpltail
About three years ago, I was talking to a 9E pilot about the Q400s. I asked him if he was worried about that flying getting farmed out to Colgan instead of them doing the flying. He said, "F-no, we don't want the turboprop flying. Colgan can have it!"
Oops!
Oops!
I really don't think that one Pinnacle SJS candidate speaks for the pilot group as a whole.....
I'd have flown it depending on the pay/QOL matrix for me. I'd also fly a 172 if it suit me...usually the guys that say "no to turboprops" are the guys that have never flown one...
Last edited by mooney; 10-04-2010 at 01:05 PM.
10-04-2010, 12:59 PM
#74
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,525
Originally Posted by mooney
I really don't think that one Pinnacle SJS candidate speaks for the pilot group as a whole.....
Mooney- you still owe me a beer.. give me a time and place!
10-04-2010, 01:02 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
Originally Posted by BE19Pilot
Wouldn't surprise me at all to see that scenario play out here in Colganland, however, I don't really like it and no one in my position would. However, I am not going to have any angst toward anyone that is able to find a good seat when the music stops.
Regards,
ex-Navy Rotorhead
Regards,
ex-Navy Rotorhead
10-04-2010, 01:10 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Doing what you do, for less.
Posts: 1,792
Originally Posted by higney85
If Q's were up for bid for 9E pilots, the vacancies would have been filled by 9E pilots. Nothing against colgan, but as Mooney said 1 pilot isn't the voice of 1200+. Colgan is Colgan, Pinnacle is Pinnacle, Mesaba is Mesaba. One day we will all be PNCL pilots in both contract and seniority. The past is the past, don't dwell on it. I have yet to hear a single guy talk in foul AGAINST CJC pilots, and believe me when I say I hear from alot of em.
Mooney- you still owe me a beer.. give me a time and place!
Mooney- you still owe me a beer.. give me a time and place!
The allotment of these positions... at Colgan, versus had they been flown at Pinnacle, could've made a very big difference in hundreds of Pinnacle pilots' lives. It will continue to make a large difference in the careers of Pinnacle pilots, as there is an up-and-coming SLI to take place. As substantial number of the pilots at Colgan are there directly because of the Q400s, and now in the SLI, may end up senior to the Pinnacle pilots who were working under an expired contract financing the purchasing of these airplanes.
Furthermore, I've heard that Colgan has lost more money since its purchase by Pinnacle than the price paid to buy the airline. So not only has Pinnacle's profits bought Colgan a fleet of brand-new airplanes, but the airline possibly wouldn't even still be in business had they not been purchased by Pinnacle.
Again, as I've said before, I have nothing against Colgan or Colgan pilots... one has to remember where these planes came from and the history behind them.
10-04-2010, 01:23 PM
#79
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,525
Originally Posted by lolwut
I hope you're not saying the past is the past, in relation to where the Q400s went and what pilot group was chosen to fly them. It still very much has an effect on the future.
The allotment of these positions... at Colgan, versus had they been flown at Pinnacle, could've made a very big difference in hundreds of Pinnacle pilots' lives. It will continue to make a large difference in the careers of Pinnacle pilots, as there is an up-and-coming SLI to take place. As substantial number of the pilots at Colgan are there directly because of the Q400s, and now in the SLI, may end up senior to the Pinnacle pilots who were working under an expired contract financing the purchasing of these airplanes.
Furthermore, I've heard that Colgan has lost more money since its purchase by Pinnacle than the price paid to buy the airline. So not only has Pinnacle's profits bought Colgan a fleet of brand-new airplanes, but the airline possibly wouldn't even still be in business had they not been purchased by Pinnacle.
Again, as I've said before, I have nothing against Colgan or Colgan pilots... one has to remember where these planes came from and the history behind them.
The allotment of these positions... at Colgan, versus had they been flown at Pinnacle, could've made a very big difference in hundreds of Pinnacle pilots' lives. It will continue to make a large difference in the careers of Pinnacle pilots, as there is an up-and-coming SLI to take place. As substantial number of the pilots at Colgan are there directly because of the Q400s, and now in the SLI, may end up senior to the Pinnacle pilots who were working under an expired contract financing the purchasing of these airplanes.
Furthermore, I've heard that Colgan has lost more money since its purchase by Pinnacle than the price paid to buy the airline. So not only has Pinnacle's profits bought Colgan a fleet of brand-new airplanes, but the airline possibly wouldn't even still be in business had they not been purchased by Pinnacle.
Again, as I've said before, I have nothing against Colgan or Colgan pilots... one has to remember where these planes came from and the history behind them.
10-04-2010, 01:53 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by AxialFlow
How can you say we stand to do pretty well with a contract that doesn't exist? It could be 5 years before we have a contract...until then, the F/O's here want 1 thing: An upgrade. It was a reasonable career expectation for Colgan pilots hired here. 3-5 year fences should be able to accomodate that before they have to sit reserve for 5 years in EWR
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