Airline Pilot Central Forums - ASA/XJT JCBA: No Dual Qual!

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Regional (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/)

- - ASA/XJT JCBA: No Dual Qual! (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/54949-asa-xjt-jcba-no-dual-qual.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverandSore (Post 903682)

You are a fool of you think Dual Qual is a good idea. The exact same argument applies to Captains flying the right seat and getting paid the FO rate. We should allow that too. It allows the company big savings, right? They get to have fewer pilots and can be more efficient, you get an increased QOL because you have more options! Tell me how that is different?

Guys, Dual Qual is increased work for you (which you will be proficient on) for less pay. I know Delta does it with the 757 and 767, but guess what!? They're paid at the 767 rates. Dual Qual allows the company to pay you 50 seat rates for Vacation, Sick Time, Cancellations, etc. Why on Earth would you give up a negotiated pay structure that, oh by the way, airlines with different sized aircraft use, for the promise of more flexibility? Did UPS base their pay structure for the fleet based on the smallest aircraft? No.

Do you also think that Crew Pay will be able to track this? They can't do it properly in the current environment but you're willing to give that up on the promise of a better life? I'm also curious about the failure rates at airlines with Dual Qual. I know Skywest has a higher failure rate, and I'm not saying Dual Qual is the reason why, but is it a factor? Again, I'm not saying we can't do it, but why would you give in to an increase in work and responsibility for less pay? QoL is not the answer as that is a factor that the company can control thru a myriad of other factors. If you want Dual Qual, demand higher than current 700 rates for the increased responsibility. Anything less and you're arguing for pay cuts. If that's the case, I'd like to see the proposal for Captains flying as FOs too, I want the total option to have a better quality of schedule and that will really let me make life great.

You're assuming that we're going to the Skywest Dual Qual "Brad Holt Override" system. That system will be absolutely unacceptable over here as its a pay cut. A Dual Qual agreement can be made to benefit the pilot group and management.

First, instead of an "override", we must have a "blended payrate" based on ratio of aircraft and JCBA 145/200 pay and JCBA 700/900 pay. The company will have considerable cost savings from Dual Qual. Part of that cost saving must be returned to the pilot group by having a blended payrate that at the very least, is at current 700/900 pay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 903842)

First, instead of an "override", we must have a "blended payrate" based on ratio of aircraft and JCBA 145/200 pay and JCBA 700/900 pay. The company will have considerable cost savings from Dual Qual. Part of that cost saving must be returned to the pilot group by having a blended payrate that at the very least, is at current 700/900 pay.

The 900 pay rates are only about $1 more than the consecionary 145 rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRJDriver (Post 903132)

Those figures are in Canadian Dollars, but yes, the pay is significantly more than what US regional's pay their FOs when you do the conversion.

The US economy ain't what it used to be, my friend. When was the last time you looked at exchange rates? The figures are in Canadian Dollars, but the Canadian Dollar reached parity with the US Dollar a few years ago and has stayed within about 10 cents of the USD the last few years. Right now it is at 1.01, meaning the USD is worth .01 cents more than the CAD. Yeah, one cent per dollar is really going to make a difference :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confused (Post 903179)

Keep in mind that the cost of living in Canada is much much much more than down here. Higher taxes as well.

Again, incorrect. If by "down here" you mean Norfolk, VA/ORF or Atlanta, GA/ATL, then yes, it is more expensive in Toronto. But considering how many regional pilots either live or commute to the trifecta of suck (JFK/LGA/EWR) or CALIFORNIA, I sincerely doubt the cost of living in either of these locations is lower than anywhere in Canada. Last I checked they didn't need rent freezes in Toronto but they did in San Francisco and NYC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 903185)

Awh come on, the cost of living in NYC is more than Toronto, and there is nobody with an NYC base paying Jazz payrates:D

Correct, and that is even with the USD being worth .01 cents/dollar more than the USD. Doing the math, $16,000 USD = $16,291 CAD. So someone working for Colgan gets a whopping $291 per year more if they are in the US versus Canada. When adjusted for exchange rates, Jazz pilots make substantially more than their US counterparts, particularly compared to the regional pilots having to live in high cost of living areas like NYC area, New England or California.

Its true guys....XJTs concessionary rates for 50 seat aircraft are within $1 of your 900 rates! Our pre-concession rates were higher than your current 900 rates! Thats to fly 50 seats! No mercy, we need to bring this up to where it needs to be. Work rules (QOL) will always be #1 in my book though. What good are high pay rates if you're never home?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetBlast77 (Post 903952)

Its true guys....XJTs concessionary rates for 50 seat aircraft are within $1 of your 900 rates! Our pre-concession rates were higher than your current 900 rates! Thats to fly 50 seats!

Yes, we hear this all the time. We know, we know, we know. Tell your MEC what you want from the contract! As you said, QOL and work rules should be far more important though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetBlast77 (Post 903952)

Hey random thought. Can an XJT guy post the pre-concession rates on here? Would love to see what we need to get back to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamenNoodles (Post 903971)

Hey random thought. Can an XJT guy post the pre-concession rates on here? Would love to see what we need to get back to.

Ask and you shall receive. The rates are for 12/01/09, the last year for an LOA for a contract extension that was signed. All rates are 145, there are 135 rates in the table. Not applicable as we don't have them on property, anymore;

CA
1 65.28
2 67.24
3 69.25
4 71.33
5 73.47
6 75.67
7 77.19
8 79.50
9 81.89
10 84.35
11 86.88
12 89.48
13 92.17
14 94.93
15 96.83
16 98.77
17 100.74
18 102.76

FO

1 24.50
2 36.47
3 38.73
4 41.31
5 42.55
6 43.82
7 45.14
8 46.49

I'd like to see these with standard 3-6% per year added for every year until new rates are signed as the baseline for negotiation. For the 50 seat equipment at least. Horizon's 700 rates should be used for the larger stuff.

I KNOW, it's nothing but voiding a bladder into the effects of a pressure differential.

^ those payrates X (401k match % + B fund Defined Contribution %) =

Years 1-5 = 6.5% (4% matching + 2.5% B fund)
Years 5-10 = 9% (5% matching + 4% B fund)
Years 10-15 = 11% (6% matching + 5% B fund)
Years 15-20 = 11.5% (6% matching + 5.5% B fund)
Years 20+ = 12% (6% matching + 6% B fund)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SayAgain (Post 903103)

What is Xjet's sick policy? The last Xjet js'er we had said they needed a dr's note everytime they called in sick. I do not like ASA's draconian occurence policy. To add to the list:

- the ability to drop trips without going through a chief pilot.

If you provide a doc's note the sick call does not count as an occurrence. If you opt to not get a note then after 4 sick calls in a 12 month period we get a verbal warning, after 5 a written warning, and 6 supposedly term. We accrue 5 hours of sick time a month from date of hire. No graduated rate. Hope this helps. R/David

Hey, while we're saving the company money and increasing schedule flexibility, why don't we shoot for quad-qual?:rolleyes: I mean CRJ/ERJ -- an RJ's an RJ. Imagine all the cool trip swaps and overnights we could get!