On the flip side I'm sure there are quite a few captains out there that have flown with F.Os who should just hang it up too. Probably should have never started flying. Seat doesn't matter. Some people just suck as a pilot and will never admit to it. Age just makes it worse.

 

There are no studies, there are no current lawsuits, there is no move by ICAO to raise its current age. There is no study at Delta. This entire thread is a figment of the imagination of a few individuals. The usual suspects get bored if they are not stirring some kind of pot. 99 percent of what they post can be quickly verified with google or a few phone calls.

 

There are significant training costs that are delayed/saved by increasing retirement age. This varies depending on the airline - Southwest only saves two training events (one upgrade, one new hire) but the legacies have reaped significant savings by delaying multiple training events per retirement.
There are other cost savings that aren't as quanitifiable as training costs. Getting more productive years out of pilots increases the overall supply of pilots which helps depress wages.
The problem we now face with another age increase is that stealth organizations such as IATA will be pushing for higher retirement ages. AARP, the most powerful lobby in DC, will be happy to join forces with any organization pushing for age increases. And let's not forget the politicians - they'll happily support higher retirement ages because it allows them to kick the social security time bomb down the road a little further.

 

The next age increase could happen very quickly with little advance warning. Ask some Europeans how quickly retirement ages increased over there. As a result of their debt crisis Spain, Greece, Germany, Denmark, Italy and others have increased their retirement age.

 

I agree. Without ICAO in the lead or at the very least one of the ringleaders, this is fantasy.

 

I've been monitoring retirements at United since the new limit was enacted. There have been an average of less than 2 per month since it started. The latest System Schedule Committee report shows 2 retirements in November. Prior to the age change, we were seeing ~25 retirements/month.
I'll be happy to dig through the reports and post the exact retirement numbers for United over the last two years if you do the same, including airline and monthly numbers. You never stated the airline for the 163 retirements. I'm assuming that you're only referring to Delta numbers since that's where you're employed. If you've added AMR numbers into that tally, I've got some 'news' for you about a special circustance that caused the numbers to spike.

 

Yeah, and I was told that I'd never notice the age change.
Most would retire at 62.
And no one would get furloughed.
I'm 2 3/4 years into my current furlough.

How hard do you think it would be to get ICAO on board with another age increase? Especially in light of the world financial crisis?

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-George Santayana

 

Working to 65 is self-evidence of a career that backfired IMO, whether by personal mismanagement or circumstantial shortcomings endemic to said career (i.e. crappy career by design). Either way, not an enviable condition for me, even if you were at the helm of the god-dam--ed Space Shuttle. Working out of economic necessity or lack of outside interests past 60 sounds awful. I know every boomer out there likes to politically paint Gen X/Y/Z ers as becoming in their 60s the equivalent of virile 20 year olds, as leverage to politically push the working age further and further. Total BS. I know I'll be just as sick and tired of doing something as my parents were at 55. And my health will be +/- one sigma from the tired a_sses they were at 55.

Looking at pilots in their 50s I have no substantive reason to believe I'll be substantially in better physical shape than they are today, and God knows I wouldn't want to be doing their job at 55.. and they don't either, it's just that they got caught with their pants down in a crappy career. To suggest I not learn from their experience would be gratuitously unwise.

 

The problem with this theory is that some guys get torpedoed by circumstances beyond their control. Right, Andy? I guess you're making the argument that airline piloting is a crappy career by design.

If that's what you're shooting for, I'd agree...

 

Every junior whiner I know that *****es about age 65 also says that now, since all the old guys are keeping them junior for another 5 years, they will now have to work til 65 to make up for it.

Seems to me they ought to be quitting sooner than later since they're so much better at planning their retirements and they also have a lot more time to recover from getting the rug yanked out from under them.

TW