Quote:
That is a very real danger, and as such we would have to be prepared to throw that egg back in their face at the cost of our own jobs. It's truly a game of "chicken".Originally Posted by MunkyButtr
Reference the atc strike of 81. PATCO was powerless and that set the stage for powerless unions. Unions are only viable on the company level. A federal judge can tell our union to go suck an egg.
Quote:
Because the union wont back it... and there is many to many P ssys at this company who will fly for nothing... 7% is nothing when your doing this as a hobby.Originally Posted by Jamers
Why don't we consider an illegal strike?
trust me when I say there are people out there who would take a 20% cut without even thinking about it... welcome to Pinnacle.
Quote:
trust me when I say there are people out there who would take a 20% cut without even thinking about it... welcome to Pinnacle.
Figured I would grammatically correct - Originally Posted by PCLCREW
Because the union wont back it... and there is many to many P ssys at this company who will fly for nothing... 7% is nothing when your doing this as a hobby.trust me when I say there are people out there who would take a 20% cut without even thinking about it... welcome to Pinnacle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdY2MnDm48w
Quote:
Figured I would grammatically correct -
The Wire: Bunk - "Know what the plural of ***** is?" - YouTube
Got to love the Bunk...Originally Posted by Shimmydamp
Figured I would grammatically correct -
The Wire: Bunk - "Know what the plural of ***** is?" - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVW34_gnxu4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Point 1.
It’s kind of aggravating reading the posts on here; we will never have the full story but seriously do your self the favor of reading the SEC fillings. I am anxiously awaiting the 4Q in FEB but the 3Q report is quite enlightening. Inform yourself with facts before you go spouting off with the asinine crap you herd in the crew room.
Point 2.
Colgan and the Qs-
I am guessing here but I think the SAABs days are numbered. PNCL has already lost about 60 of them. We only have a handful left with orders for more Qs; so I do not think Colgan will bring PNCL down. As Sean said we underbid the Qs but why do you think we will just end the fleet type? UAL loves the Q and it seems that they are getting more of them. Would it be easier for UAL to up the rate on the Q to PNCL or find someone else that will start a new fleet type for less money and go through this again at a later date? While we are in bankruptcy it will be easy for UAL to adjust the rate. Personally I don’t think we will be parking them but who knows… Oh, btw the Q is paid as a CPA.
As far as Colgan being the cancer, check the 3Q filling. You might be surprised to see who had the highest operating income. It’s Colgan! For as long as PNCL has owned Colgan, I believe, the operating margin has been higher then that of 9E (although I going on memory here and mine is not that good). PNCL incurred a bunch of debt with the purchase of 9L and the Q’s. That is our problem created by Phil, not Colgan or the pilots.
Point 3.
Seriously, now that XJ cert is gone we have to get past this fractured pilot group thing of whose fault is it and who will take the hit. It is all of us, we are in this sandwich together now.
Point 4.
Pay Cuts and IMHO-
We are not the problem, we are going to bankruptcy, and nothing we do (as a pilot group) will affect the outcome. So then why take a pay cut?
IMHO, this decision was decided years ago in a boardroom in Atlanta. It is either that or both Sean and Phil are the dumbest morons to ever walk the earth.
Here are the facts:
. The entire pilot contract is estimated to cost $19mil/yr more then pre-merger costs.
. At the 3Q contract implementation expenses, severance, and integration ytd cost only 8.477mill.
. Most of our revenue comes from Delta
. In Feb 2012 Delta will adjust the contract rate to reflect increased pilot costs
. Delta is obligated to pay a retro pilot cost check
. The acquisition agreement obligated Delta to pay for a bulk of the other merger costs
. ALPA has said a pilot concession is just for show and has no financial justification.
. Phil said our pilot contract was “extremely completive”
. Sean said our pilot contract was almost “average”
. Wall Street analysts that predicted bankruptcy said we “are not overpaid by any stretch of the imagination”
. Even after all that drama our operating income (profit before debt obligations) for the 3Q ytd was $23.1 mill.
. In 2010 we were a 1.23 bill/yr company, less in 2011
. In a time when costs our increasing Sean has slashed our revenue with reductions in flying
. We have 800 mill in debt
. We are paying 13 mill/Q in interest. Most of it at 5%.
-So why on earth, if Delta will pick up the tab for the pilots would you voluntary give money away?
-Giving money away will not solve our finical problems and keep us out of bankruptcy.
-Giving money away now will not affect if we give money away in bankruptcy.
It’s kind of aggravating reading the posts on here; we will never have the full story but seriously do your self the favor of reading the SEC fillings. I am anxiously awaiting the 4Q in FEB but the 3Q report is quite enlightening. Inform yourself with facts before you go spouting off with the asinine crap you herd in the crew room.
Point 2.
Colgan and the Qs-
I am guessing here but I think the SAABs days are numbered. PNCL has already lost about 60 of them. We only have a handful left with orders for more Qs; so I do not think Colgan will bring PNCL down. As Sean said we underbid the Qs but why do you think we will just end the fleet type? UAL loves the Q and it seems that they are getting more of them. Would it be easier for UAL to up the rate on the Q to PNCL or find someone else that will start a new fleet type for less money and go through this again at a later date? While we are in bankruptcy it will be easy for UAL to adjust the rate. Personally I don’t think we will be parking them but who knows… Oh, btw the Q is paid as a CPA.
As far as Colgan being the cancer, check the 3Q filling. You might be surprised to see who had the highest operating income. It’s Colgan! For as long as PNCL has owned Colgan, I believe, the operating margin has been higher then that of 9E (although I going on memory here and mine is not that good). PNCL incurred a bunch of debt with the purchase of 9L and the Q’s. That is our problem created by Phil, not Colgan or the pilots.
Point 3.
Seriously, now that XJ cert is gone we have to get past this fractured pilot group thing of whose fault is it and who will take the hit. It is all of us, we are in this sandwich together now.
Point 4.
Pay Cuts and IMHO-
We are not the problem, we are going to bankruptcy, and nothing we do (as a pilot group) will affect the outcome. So then why take a pay cut?
IMHO, this decision was decided years ago in a boardroom in Atlanta. It is either that or both Sean and Phil are the dumbest morons to ever walk the earth.
Here are the facts:
. The entire pilot contract is estimated to cost $19mil/yr more then pre-merger costs.
. At the 3Q contract implementation expenses, severance, and integration ytd cost only 8.477mill.
. Most of our revenue comes from Delta
. In Feb 2012 Delta will adjust the contract rate to reflect increased pilot costs
. Delta is obligated to pay a retro pilot cost check
. The acquisition agreement obligated Delta to pay for a bulk of the other merger costs
. ALPA has said a pilot concession is just for show and has no financial justification.
. Phil said our pilot contract was “extremely completive”
. Sean said our pilot contract was almost “average”
. Wall Street analysts that predicted bankruptcy said we “are not overpaid by any stretch of the imagination”
. Even after all that drama our operating income (profit before debt obligations) for the 3Q ytd was $23.1 mill.
. In 2010 we were a 1.23 bill/yr company, less in 2011
. In a time when costs our increasing Sean has slashed our revenue with reductions in flying
. We have 800 mill in debt
. We are paying 13 mill/Q in interest. Most of it at 5%.
-So why on earth, if Delta will pick up the tab for the pilots would you voluntary give money away?
-Giving money away will not solve our finical problems and keep us out of bankruptcy.
-Giving money away now will not affect if we give money away in bankruptcy.
Quote:
It’s kind of aggravating reading the posts on here; we will never have the full story but seriously do your self the favor of reading the SEC fillings. I am anxiously awaiting the 4Q in FEB but the 3Q report is quite enlightening. Inform yourself with facts before you go spouting off with the asinine crap you herd in the crew room.
Point 2.
Colgan and the Qs-
I am guessing here but I think the SAABs days are numbered. PNCL has already lost about 60 of them. We only have a handful left with orders for more Qs; so I do not think Colgan will bring PNCL down. As Sean said we underbid the Qs but why do you think we will just end the fleet type? UAL loves the Q and it seems that they are getting more of them. Would it be easier for UAL to up the rate on the Q to PNCL or find someone else that will start a new fleet type for less money and go through this again at a later date? While we are in bankruptcy it will be easy for UAL to adjust the rate. Personally I don’t think we will be parking them but who knows… Oh, btw the Q is paid as a CPA.
As far as Colgan being the cancer, check the 3Q filling. You might be surprised to see who had the highest operating income. It’s Colgan! For as long as PNCL has owned Colgan, I believe, the operating margin has been higher then that of 9E (although I going on memory here and mine is not that good). PNCL incurred a bunch of debt with the purchase of 9L and the Q’s. That is our problem created by Phil, not Colgan or the pilots.
Point 3.
Seriously, now that XJ cert is gone we have to get past this fractured pilot group thing of whose fault is it and who will take the hit. It is all of us, we are in this sandwich together now.
Point 4.
Pay Cuts and IMHO-
We are not the problem, we are going to bankruptcy, and nothing we do (as a pilot group) will affect the outcome. So then why take a pay cut?
IMHO, this decision was decided years ago in a boardroom in Atlanta. It is either that or both Sean and Phil are the dumbest morons to ever walk the earth.
Here are the facts:
. The entire pilot contract is estimated to cost $19mil/yr more then pre-merger costs.
. At the 3Q contract implementation expenses, severance, and integration ytd cost only 8.477mill.
. Most of our revenue comes from Delta
. In Feb 2012 Delta will adjust the contract rate to reflect increased pilot costs
. Delta is obligated to pay a retro pilot cost check
. The acquisition agreement obligated Delta to pay for a bulk of the other merger costs
. ALPA has said a pilot concession is just for show and has no financial justification.
. Phil said our pilot contract was “extremely completive”
. Sean said our pilot contract was almost “average”
. Wall Street analysts that predicted bankruptcy said we “are not overpaid by any stretch of the imagination”
. Even after all that drama our operating income (profit before debt obligations) for the 3Q ytd was $23.1 mill.
. In 2010 we were a 1.23 bill/yr company, less in 2011
. In a time when costs our increasing Sean has slashed our revenue with reductions in flying
. We have 800 mill in debt
. We are paying 13 mill/Q in interest. Most of it at 5%.
-So why on earth, if Delta will pick up the tab for the pilots would you voluntary give money away?
-Giving money away will not solve our finical problems and keep us out of bankruptcy.
-Giving money away now will not affect if we give money away in bankruptcy.
Very well saidOriginally Posted by seahawker01
Point 1. It’s kind of aggravating reading the posts on here; we will never have the full story but seriously do your self the favor of reading the SEC fillings. I am anxiously awaiting the 4Q in FEB but the 3Q report is quite enlightening. Inform yourself with facts before you go spouting off with the asinine crap you herd in the crew room.
Point 2.
Colgan and the Qs-
I am guessing here but I think the SAABs days are numbered. PNCL has already lost about 60 of them. We only have a handful left with orders for more Qs; so I do not think Colgan will bring PNCL down. As Sean said we underbid the Qs but why do you think we will just end the fleet type? UAL loves the Q and it seems that they are getting more of them. Would it be easier for UAL to up the rate on the Q to PNCL or find someone else that will start a new fleet type for less money and go through this again at a later date? While we are in bankruptcy it will be easy for UAL to adjust the rate. Personally I don’t think we will be parking them but who knows… Oh, btw the Q is paid as a CPA.
As far as Colgan being the cancer, check the 3Q filling. You might be surprised to see who had the highest operating income. It’s Colgan! For as long as PNCL has owned Colgan, I believe, the operating margin has been higher then that of 9E (although I going on memory here and mine is not that good). PNCL incurred a bunch of debt with the purchase of 9L and the Q’s. That is our problem created by Phil, not Colgan or the pilots.
Point 3.
Seriously, now that XJ cert is gone we have to get past this fractured pilot group thing of whose fault is it and who will take the hit. It is all of us, we are in this sandwich together now.
Point 4.
Pay Cuts and IMHO-
We are not the problem, we are going to bankruptcy, and nothing we do (as a pilot group) will affect the outcome. So then why take a pay cut?
IMHO, this decision was decided years ago in a boardroom in Atlanta. It is either that or both Sean and Phil are the dumbest morons to ever walk the earth.
Here are the facts:
. The entire pilot contract is estimated to cost $19mil/yr more then pre-merger costs.
. At the 3Q contract implementation expenses, severance, and integration ytd cost only 8.477mill.
. Most of our revenue comes from Delta
. In Feb 2012 Delta will adjust the contract rate to reflect increased pilot costs
. Delta is obligated to pay a retro pilot cost check
. The acquisition agreement obligated Delta to pay for a bulk of the other merger costs
. ALPA has said a pilot concession is just for show and has no financial justification.
. Phil said our pilot contract was “extremely completive”
. Sean said our pilot contract was almost “average”
. Wall Street analysts that predicted bankruptcy said we “are not overpaid by any stretch of the imagination”
. Even after all that drama our operating income (profit before debt obligations) for the 3Q ytd was $23.1 mill.
. In 2010 we were a 1.23 bill/yr company, less in 2011
. In a time when costs our increasing Sean has slashed our revenue with reductions in flying
. We have 800 mill in debt
. We are paying 13 mill/Q in interest. Most of it at 5%.
-So why on earth, if Delta will pick up the tab for the pilots would you voluntary give money away?
-Giving money away will not solve our finical problems and keep us out of bankruptcy.
-Giving money away now will not affect if we give money away in bankruptcy.
And just to add to it, 7% of $19 million is $1.33 million over the course of a year. Do any of you honestly think this little amount will save the company from a BK?
The most important metric here is that Pinnacle is operationally profitable. Wall Street isn't freaking out right now about UAL posting a loss because they were operationally profitable. It was their one time merger costs that swung them into a loss. Once those go away UAL will be profitable just like Pinnacle will be when it's merger costs go away.
Seahawker - that's one of the best posts I've read in a long time. I'd buy ya a beer if I knew ya.
Quote:
And just to add to it, 7% of $19 million is $1.33 million over the course of a year. Do any of you honestly think this little amount will save the company from a BK?
The most important metric here is that Pinnacle is operationally profitable. Wall Street isn't freaking out right now about UAL posting a loss because they were operationally profitable. It was their one time merger costs that swung them into a loss. Once those go away UAL will be profitable just like Pinnacle will be when it's merger costs go away.
I think it is a short term liquidity problem. The problem is the available cash on hand. I think much of their cash is tied to debts and so it can't fall below a certain amount or it will trigger a feeding frenzy from our creditors thus shutting the airline down. I think we are dangerously close to that amount.Originally Posted by PurdueFlyer
Very well saidAnd just to add to it, 7% of $19 million is $1.33 million over the course of a year. Do any of you honestly think this little amount will save the company from a BK?
The most important metric here is that Pinnacle is operationally profitable. Wall Street isn't freaking out right now about UAL posting a loss because they were operationally profitable. It was their one time merger costs that swung them into a loss. Once those go away UAL will be profitable just like Pinnacle will be when it's merger costs go away.
Quote:
id say that we would know if we ran outnof cash if the paychecks didnt show up, but that happens every month lol.Originally Posted by gonyon
I think it is a short term liquidity problem. The problem is the available cash on hand. I think much of their cash is tied to debts and so it can't fall below a certain amount or it will trigger a feeding frenzy from our creditors thus shutting the airline down. I think we are dangerously close to that amount.
