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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Regional (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/)
-   -   Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan's future. Poll (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/65919-pinnacle-mesaba-colgans-future-poll.html)

ShyGuy 03-10-2012 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine (Post 1149445)
Others could, but they would have to prove to United that they are on the verge of bankruptcy which would cause their stock to drop.

Colgan is in a unique situation because they are the only large Q400 operator. It would take a lot of time and money to start a new Q400 operation at another carrier (or expand their current one). Also, I doubt any carrier would match our current price. If a CRJ or 145 operator tries to get more money from United, it would not be too difficult for United to give that flying to another RJ operator.
Our current price? You mean the one that is running at a full loss? We cannot sustain this long term.

In the end it does not matter. Our fate was decided a long time ago and nothing we can do can change the outcome. In the end we lose. SM is not going to surprise us and announce he was joking and we are getting 15 more Qs and everything will be fine. If we do get more aircraft I am sure it will come with some sucker-punch to offset any possible positive outcome for the pilot group. Remember, management has a lot more control than us and they nearly always get what they want. A win for any pilot group is usually just maintain the status quo, or an outcome that ends up being slightly better than it could have been. We mare merely pawns fighting a lopsided battle.
I think you'd be out of touch with reality to think we are getting more airplanes. Menke and new management have already turned down flying and not bid flying contracts because they needed to clean house first, as in the merger, 11-09, and one list. We are pawns in the game of chess, but our strategic position (which is terrible by the way) is 70% due to union actions on the merger itself. A bunch of chest thumping, greedy self-interest actions and disagreements led us to where we are today.

CrakPipeOvrheat 03-10-2012 05:25 PM
A bunch of chest thumping, greedy self-interest actions and disagreements led us to where we are today.
So what. I hope this place burns to the ground. It's what pinnacle deserves.

AxialFlow 03-10-2012 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by CrakPipeOvrheat (Post 1149498)
Question, if I have a chance to go somewhere I can get abused for the same pay and a quick upgrade resulting in even more schedule abuse, is it worth the turbine pic time to bail? I keep going back and fourth on this.
The Turbine PIC is the biggest key that will open doors for you.

CrakPipeOvrheat 03-10-2012 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by CrakPipeOvrheat (Post 1149498)
Question, if I have a chance to go somewhere I can get abused for the same pay and a quick upgrade resulting in even more schedule abuse, is it worth the turbine pic time to bail? I keep going back and fourth on this.
The Turbine PIC is the biggest key that will open doors for you.
I'm worried I make the switch and upgrades suddenly aren't quick anymore. Also, I'm talking abuse worse than pre contract pinnacle reserve. 24/7 on call with a 30 min call out? Worth the chance?

AxialFlow 03-10-2012 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine (Post 1149445)
Others could, but they would have to prove to United that they are on the verge of bankruptcy which would cause their stock to drop.

Colgan is in a unique situation because they are the only large Q400 operator. It would take a lot of time and money to start a new Q400 operation at another carrier (or expand their current one). Also, I doubt any carrier would match our current price. If a CRJ or 145 operator tries to get more money from United, it would not be too difficult for United to give that flying to another RJ operator.

In the end it does not matter. Our fate was decided a long time ago and nothing we can do can change the outcome. In the end we lose. SM is not going to surprise us and announce he was joking and we are getting 15 more Qs and everything will be fine. If we do get more aircraft I am sure it will come with some sucker-punch to offset any possible positive outcome for the pilot group. Remember, management has a lot more control than us and they nearly always get what they want. A win for any pilot group is usually just maintain the status quo, or an outcome that ends up being slightly better than it could have been. We mare merely pawns fighting a lopsided battle.
That's a good point...and who's to say if United and Pinnacle renegotiated the terms of the contract, that the details would be released? (Do they have to be released?) I've heard that we turned down delivery of more Q's a little ways back because we didn't have the staffing for it...now if United and Colgan came to an agreement where the Saabs were parked, we might be better able to handle more Q deliveries? You're right though, whatever happens will happen. Either way...gotta do something in the crashpad...might as well kick the can and crack another Natty Lite!

ShyGuy 03-10-2012 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by CrakPipeOvrheat (Post 1149515)
I'm worried I make the switch and upgrades suddenly aren't quick anymore. Also, I'm talking abuse worse than pre contract pinnacle reserve. 24/7 on call with a 30 min call out? Worth the chance?
Do be careful chasing an upgrade! I thought you were talking about GoJet, but that's probably not it.

The Turbine PIC is the biggest key that will open doors for you.
True, however, there will be thousands ahead that have tons of TPIC. Airlines today realize that the industry has stagnated, and they are giving credit for higher time FOs with SIC only and 0 TPIC. Jetblue, Spirit, and Virgin America have been known to hire FOs. CrakPipeOverheat, you could give those three a shot.

2StgTurbine 03-10-2012 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 1149499)
Our current price? You mean the one that is running at a full loss? We cannot sustain this long term.
That is my point. We are losing money at the current rate we have, so it would be very unlikely for another operator to match that price and suffer the same fate.

Fly782 03-10-2012 06:16 PM
Well Shyguy just PMed me and stated the most recent threads on airlink, which I know MA is no longer a member of. So either one of his friends told him or hes not MA :(

ShyGuy 03-10-2012 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine (Post 1149540)
That is my point. We are losing money at the current rate we have, so it would be very unlikely for another operator to match that price and suffer the same fate.
Right, but someone else like Commutair could offer lower labor rates and better terms than what we offer, either the same price now or a slightly higher cost. I just hope we all know sooner rather than later what happens with the United/Continental negotiations.

9easy 03-10-2012 07:43 PM
I'm definitely not MAnswers, and if I got a job at VA I'd hopefully never look at this message board again much less give a crap about pinnacle.


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