The sky is falling at 9E
03-31-2012 | 03:30 PM
#101
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From: French-Canadian
03-31-2012 | 03:35 PM
#102
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From: CL-65 captain
Maybe the 9E trainers can answer this: Why is it that at 9L the 9E transiitions are so vocal about complimenting our training department by consistently verbalizing the clear differences in philosophy to that of the 9E training dept?
Our training contains some tricky situations, many crashes, hard scenarios and flat out tiring SE procedures. The crashes are not intended to defeat the student but to help them learn.
Many of the Jet transitions fly with their feet on the floor and practically roll the planes over during single engine ops and fly completely uncoordinated during steep turns and even regular profiles. Their comments always center around what a heavy airplane the Q is on the controls. These weak spots are focused on and by the time they get to their Checkride they are fixed. The XJ SF340 transitions have no problems with the controls but are a skosh weaker on the automation. Those points are focused on, fixed and by the time they arrive at their check ride, they are ready.
That is called training. We set them up for success not gotcha-ology which seems to be the order of the day at 9E training. As if the 200 is such a complex and difficult plane compared to the Q. Give me a break. There have been many extra sessions required because of not being quite ready for the checkride, but candidates are not signed off if they are not ready and the low fail rate bears that out.
The transitions say they like the Jet better then the Q, and that the Q is a much more difficult plane to learn and to fly. I hear the 200 is very responsive on the controls and the logic of the Collins FMS is very intuitive.
Any examiner or Check Airman or even instructor at CJC could fail a 9E transition at any time. We control the scenarios, have thousands of hours in the airplane and know exactly how to distract students and put them in unrealistic traps. Those types of scenarios are strictly forbidden by our management as stated at instructor meetings and fleet advisory conference calls. They are a waste of valuable sim time and deflating to the students confidence. Deflated confidence never equals safety. Failures are tracked. They are viewed as weaknesses in the training. Solutions to address those weakness' are discussed and the training is adjusted accordingly. The whole system is based on students being customers and their success and good training being our product.
I'm not saying its perfect, but philosophically, it is the right direction to produce safer, more efficient and happier pilots who will safe and successful on the line.
Our training contains some tricky situations, many crashes, hard scenarios and flat out tiring SE procedures. The crashes are not intended to defeat the student but to help them learn.
Many of the Jet transitions fly with their feet on the floor and practically roll the planes over during single engine ops and fly completely uncoordinated during steep turns and even regular profiles. Their comments always center around what a heavy airplane the Q is on the controls. These weak spots are focused on and by the time they get to their Checkride they are fixed. The XJ SF340 transitions have no problems with the controls but are a skosh weaker on the automation. Those points are focused on, fixed and by the time they arrive at their check ride, they are ready.
That is called training. We set them up for success not gotcha-ology which seems to be the order of the day at 9E training. As if the 200 is such a complex and difficult plane compared to the Q. Give me a break. There have been many extra sessions required because of not being quite ready for the checkride, but candidates are not signed off if they are not ready and the low fail rate bears that out.
The transitions say they like the Jet better then the Q, and that the Q is a much more difficult plane to learn and to fly. I hear the 200 is very responsive on the controls and the logic of the Collins FMS is very intuitive.
Any examiner or Check Airman or even instructor at CJC could fail a 9E transition at any time. We control the scenarios, have thousands of hours in the airplane and know exactly how to distract students and put them in unrealistic traps. Those types of scenarios are strictly forbidden by our management as stated at instructor meetings and fleet advisory conference calls. They are a waste of valuable sim time and deflating to the students confidence. Deflated confidence never equals safety. Failures are tracked. They are viewed as weaknesses in the training. Solutions to address those weakness' are discussed and the training is adjusted accordingly. The whole system is based on students being customers and their success and good training being our product.
I'm not saying its perfect, but philosophically, it is the right direction to produce safer, more efficient and happier pilots who will safe and successful on the line.
As soon as a Saab pilot performs a V1 cut or SE go around successfully in the CRJ, they automatically put their feet on the floor then flip it over again. That's how they did it in the Saab, we train them they need constant rudder pressure or trim in. Guess what? it is focused on and by the time they arrive at their check ride they are ready.
With regards to the CRJ being a complex airplane...
You have zero swept wing jet time don't you? It is a totally different technique with v1 cuts in a Tprob vs a CRJ. You have to treat her like a woman, nice and gentle. More like an anorexic woman, too rough with her and she will crash. It's not mash the rudder and aileron with a big prop out there and non-centerline thrust. I have found in my experience, that Tprops take a heck of a lot more work initially on a V1 cut, but the CRJ is less work but less forgiving of the slightest error.
Nobody is signed off until we are sure all weaknesses are corrected and we are sure they can pass the ride. The ride is theirs to screw up, just like a job interview. Why would I want a bunch of failures on my record? That means I am not doing MY job.
Is that explained well or does the witch hunt need to continue?
03-31-2012 | 03:38 PM
#103
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03-31-2012 | 03:40 PM
#104
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Agreed, Albany is a MX base... Why would we send 3Qs up there to be parked? There's limited hangar space and and even less ramp space.... If planes were eing parked, I'd expect to see them go to Toronto... like I stated earlier, dispatch said one was for a blown door seal and the other 2, had MX issues he didn't know about.
03-31-2012 | 04:08 PM
#105
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Agreed, Albany is a MX base... Why would we send 3Qs up there to be parked? There's limited hangar space and and even less ramp space.... If planes were eing parked, I'd expect to see them go to Toronto... like I stated earlier, dispatch said one was for a blown door seal and the other 2, had MX issues he didn't know about.
I really have no idea
03-31-2012 | 04:11 PM
#106
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Just flew one of the ones heading up to ALB and there was a metal placard above the jumpseat that said "This aircraft if leased from (some bank) and that this placard may not be romoved" Something along those lines. I'd never seen that there before.
It had no MEL's, NEF's or DMI's.
I hope these are just bad rumors or ill intended jokes.
I know for a fact there are some people who are starting rumors on purpose because they think it's funny. I guess it's their right to be idiots but the point is don't believe everything you hear untill it's final.
Back to updating my log-book just in case.
It had no MEL's, NEF's or DMI's.
I hope these are just bad rumors or ill intended jokes.
I know for a fact there are some people who are starting rumors on purpose because they think it's funny. I guess it's their right to be idiots but the point is don't believe everything you hear untill it's final.
Back to updating my log-book just in case.
03-31-2012 | 04:24 PM
#108
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Just flew one of the ones heading up to ALB and there was a metal placard above the jumpseat that said "This aircraft if leased from (some bank) and that this placard may not be romoved" Something along those lines. I'd never seen that there before.
It had no MEL's, NEF's or DMI's.
I hope these are just bad rumors or ill intended jokes.
I know for a fact there are some people who are starting rumors on purpose because they think it's funny. I guess it's their right to be idiots but the point is don't believe everything you hear untill it's final.
Back to updating my log-book just in case.
It had no MEL's, NEF's or DMI's.
I hope these are just bad rumors or ill intended jokes.
I know for a fact there are some people who are starting rumors on purpose because they think it's funny. I guess it's their right to be idiots but the point is don't believe everything you hear untill it's final.
Back to updating my log-book just in case.
03-31-2012 | 04:25 PM
#109
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03-31-2012 | 04:30 PM
#110
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Just flew one of the ones heading up to ALB and there was a metal placard above the jumpseat that said "This aircraft if leased from (some bank) and that this placard may not be romoved" Something along those lines. I'd never seen that there before.
It had no MEL's, NEF's or DMI's.
I hope these are just bad rumors or ill intended jokes.
I know for a fact there are some people who are starting rumors on purpose because they think it's funny. I guess it's their right to be idiots but the point is don't believe everything you hear untill it's final.
Back to updating my log-book just in case.
It had no MEL's, NEF's or DMI's.
I hope these are just bad rumors or ill intended jokes.
I know for a fact there are some people who are starting rumors on purpose because they think it's funny. I guess it's their right to be idiots but the point is don't believe everything you hear untill it's final.
Back to updating my log-book just in case.
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