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Who really has a shot at PNCL's Q400's?

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Old 04-04-2012 | 10:21 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Cruz5350
Which is absolutely ridiculous in so many different ways. Now this is all based off of my limited experience in the airline industry from flying a TP, but hear me out. Who doesn't love the fuel savings over the RJ's, and on short trips they just can't be beat. The whole argument of the public hating them is a load of BS as far as I've seen. I think I can count on one hand how many people complained after they got off the plane and that's on a 1900. With that being said I feel like your typical Saab/ATR/Dash is much nicer than the 1900 passenger wise.

I just don't see all the discontent of an efficient airplane.
I flown Q's and RJ's, and I can personally say we get about 10% of the complaints about the jet, that we got about the Q. It seemed like everyone and their mother complained about how they were flying on a "propeller plane", while very few people complain about the "small jet".
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Old 04-04-2012 | 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sounder
I flown Q's and RJ's, and I can personally say we get about 10% of the complaints about the jet, that we got about the Q. It seemed like everyone and their mother complained about how they were flying on a "propeller plane", while very few people complain about the "small jet".
Well than I guess the Q is just a different beast than most TP's. When I stand next to the prop and deplane the pax I very rarely hear a negative, in fact about 1/4 of the folks say they really enjoyed it.
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Old 04-04-2012 | 10:26 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Sounder
I flown Q's and RJ's, and I can personally say we get about 10% of the complaints about the jet, that we got about the Q. It seemed like everyone and their mother complained about how they were flying on a "propeller plane", while very few people complain about the "small jet".
Yep, the layman perception towards TP's is not positive in general and that is a fact..period. To believe that this is not discussed in the boardrooms of the legacy carriers would be foolish.
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Old 04-04-2012 | 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DashGirl
Your problem here is you see unmatched efficiency and that is simply not the case.

This opinion is understandable for someone to have if said person has not been paying attention. The regional airline industry as a whole is trending towards downsizing. Bigger airframes, fewer flights, fewer frequency, fewer cities. The Q 400 makes no sense for short haul lift and has too many contractual obstacles to overcome to expanding the market share of this airframe on RJ styled stage lengths. No one is making 50 or less seat TP's anymore and only small capacity TP's make sense economically on short stage lengths. Where does that leave us? Why put a Q400 on a route that using a 90 seat or larger RJ would have the same or extremely close fuel burn for the leg time? You like TP's I get it. Unfortunately your assessment is off kilter regarding the reality of the market. It's NOT just about lbs. per hour! If it was there would still be 200 seat four engine TP's plugging around on US routes. Now if Bombardier for example put an updated 200 or 300 back into production then maybe we might see TP's sticking around a bit longer. But unfortunately even if that happened the city pairings between stations spaced by less than 100 miles, the domain of the TP, are drying up. The whole of the EAS system is going away and legacy carriers want less seats and fuller flights with lower operating costs. That means higher capacity airframes, not smaller.

I think the regional industry is trending back to the way it used to be call it EAS type flights in which case the TP makes sense imo. You mentioned RJ styled stage length and it’s funny because I see many RJ’s flying city pairs that make no sense using them. Bring the flying back to mainline on appropriately sized aircraft for the route! I do agree maybe there should be updated 50 seater props back on the market because I don’t see the EAS markets dying like you view it.

Last edited by Cruz5350; 04-04-2012 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 04-04-2012 | 10:41 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by DashGirl
Yep, the layman perception towards TP's is not positive in general and that is a fact..period. To believe that this is not discussed in the boardrooms of the legacy carriers would be foolish.
The layman also doesn't like baggage fee's/cramped seats with no pitch etc. etc. but the boardrooms don't talk about getting rid of that anytime soon. Let's be real legacy carriers care about one thing and that's making money period not the layman's perception because either way the tickets will be sold. It's all about making a buck the cheapest way possible and on some routes the TP>Jet. That's the only point I'm trying to make here.
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Old 04-04-2012 | 10:47 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Cruz5350
Well than I guess the Q is just a different beast than most TP's. When I stand next to the prop and deplane the pax I very rarely hear a negative, in fact about 1/4 of the folks say they really enjoyed it.
And that's the kicker, the Q400 is made for high density routes to bigger cities, which is just the kind of routes a jet would do. So when passengers buy a ticket from Denver to Salt Lake City and a big turboprop shows up, they get ****ed. Even though if they read the fine print, they would know exactly what airplane they're flying on.

Maybe in BFE Wyoming people enjoy turboprops because it's one of the few airplanes they've ridden on in their lives, but for the most part in my experience passengers really don't like turbo props.
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Old 04-04-2012 | 10:49 PM
  #47  
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A passenger's true *perception* is plain as day when they walk down a jetway only to find that they must scale a set of airstairs and board up a rattle-trap turboprop. I see the look every single day. "Holy hell, I'm flying on THAT?"
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Old 04-04-2012 | 10:50 PM
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Still doesn't stop the passenger from getting on board though. They can be ****ed and complain all they want, but 10 mins after getting off the plane they forget.
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Old 04-04-2012 | 10:53 PM
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Its not the ones that get on, its the ones that never book it in the first place. There's a reason Kayak and Expedia have "no prop planes" as a filter option.
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Old 04-04-2012 | 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by zildjian_zach
Its not the ones that get on, its the ones that never book it in the first place. There's a reason Kayak and Expedia have "no prop planes" as a filter option.
Then they realize there is no other service besides driving. When I commute to work I take a train and then a flight to my base. I don't have to take the train I could almost as easily drive, but it's just easier to let the train take me. Much like riding the TP the train is loud, uncomfortable, and has not the best passengers, but I along with many others still get on it for the convenience and because in reality it's only a 35 min ride kinda like most flights in the prop.
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