This is exactly why we should do away with the longevity scale. I've never agreed with the fact that two people doing the exact same job at the exact same company are paid different wages. Use seniority for bidding, vacation, upgrades, etc. We would at least be able to switch companies thus giving us more leverage. Take it a step further and come out with national wages. Then companies can't undercut each other. This would also take away the advantage start-ups have. No one would be punished in implementing my idea. We would keep the max pay scale at all companies. A national seniority list will never happen. My idea is at least plausible. The problem is the companies would never agree to it as it would give us incredible leverage.

 

Reminds me of this.......

OPERATION ORANGE | Protecting the Flying Public & Restoring the Piloting Profession

Establish a minimum wage for the profession.

 

Is that LB? I actually feel bad for him.

 

Ditto with PCL128. I can feel for the OP and it sucks to be in the situation he's in. However, that having been said, this is still a seniority based system. Personally, I think we should have fought for a national seniority list and implemented that, but that will never happen. Too many greedy short-sighted pilots that are doing well will not want that. Anyway, if the OP left an airline I worked at, and then more than 2 weeks later wanted to come back because his plans didn't pan out, I'd welcome him..... but to the bottom of the list.

That's the whole concept of seniority. If you leave and then come back exactly at the same seniority spot that you left with, then that defeats the whole point of seniority!

Hell, even at Pinnacle there was a true story about a Pinnacle captain who lived in Atlanta, got Atlanta awarded, and then bid out to DTW in a matter of sport bidding to make some cash and score moving days. Plenty of people did that. However, then the musical chairs stopped, and this guy was stuck and had to commute out of ATL. He then had a serious medical condition in his family (I think it was wife's cancer, but I don't know), and due to this serious medical condition he approached management and the union to try and be awarded ATL CA due to 'medical hardship.' From what he told me, management agreed, but the union did not. I felt bad for him, but then I asked him if you were already living in base why were you sport bidding? If you wanted to make extra money, you knew the risk involved, right?


Situations like that, it's tough, and too bad. Remember, we have a seniority based system. If it wasn't for that, then I would have 100% compassion. But the fact remains everything in our entire profession is based on seniority. Movement, pay, vacation, retirement, schedules! One person coming back at his original seniority means I will be bumped down one spot in schedules and seniority all because someone took a gamble to leave that didn't pay off. Sorry, but every time you leave or move you are taking a gamble. Always is the case, and always will be. Just because your gamble doesn't work out does not mean you should come back to your original spot and bump me down. You are welcome back to your original airline... but at the bottom of the seniority list.

 

+1

Why should the #1 guy/girl get everything while the bottom person gets nothing? And only because the #1 person was there first. It needs to be leveled out a bit. Squash the wages, why shouldn't a 5 year Capt make the same as a 10 year one? For the reward of being with a company for 10 years then that person gets more vacation/choice of schedules etc.... They shouldn't get everything plus 40% more pay. imo

 

+2. But Seniority would still count for bidding schedules, vacation, upgrade, etc. There's no other way to do that which is fair...the only alternative is giving the goodies to whoever spends the most time in office kissing the CP's ass. That's the way it used to work waaaay back in the day, and that's why we got a seniority system in the first place.


But the real trick is implementing this...

a) The company will never agree unless it's cost neutral.

b) The senior pilots will never agree unless their financial status is preserved, ie we are not going to raise pay for the bottom of the list by lowering pay at the top (the middle guys would be least affected).

a) and b) are mutually exclusive...in order to raise pay at the bottom AND preserve the high pay at the top (which those guys earned the hard way, over decades) the company will have to eat it for 10-20 years.

 

At most regional airlines, I don't think you can just take a LTLOA on a whim. I sure wish we could though...

How far in advance do you need to notify the company? How long is an LTLOA good for usually?

 

No, just professions like law enforcement, nursing, teachers, and most Govt Professions also start over Pretty much any unionized profession. There are a few trades that get around this, like steel workers and such, but they have one national union and one seniority list. we have one national association of a few dozen smaller unions, and a few newer unions all getting into aviation as well. As long as we're all separate like that nothing will change.

 

How many more would leave, but won't because they're afraid I'd losing their seniority.
Your stuck where you are because they won't risk leaving. If they were allowed say a one year term to return, many more would try other things, you'd move up that much faster... A few might get hosed and come back, but not all. Even at worst case, you are back where you were. Really, nothing to lose and everything to gain.