MikeB525

The flight school I'm currently seems like a regular neighborhood airport school, but it holds 141 certification. Additionally, the school is owned by the Examiner, and I did the IFR checkride with him a couple weeks ago. The students there are not young SJS wannabes; they're mostly adults getting a PPL just to fly for fun or personal transport. I just recently came to that school and finished IFR (long story), and I hold rental privalages at other schools. Is this a pilot factory?

jdr7225

HotMamaPilot-

WTF. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. ATP does NOT have examiners on their pay roll to just "pass" applicants. You need to check your facts before you start making up sh**. I've read some of your post in the past and you need to get off of your high horse and learn about a company before you continuously bash them. For lots of people, an academy is the only option they have to become a pilot. Next time, think before you post.

HotMamaPilot

If you read my entire post, you would see that I noted that the DPE's are on the ATP payroll and RARELY fail anybody. i.e. they are not examining to the proper standards(IMHO). I know that things may seem ideal to some, but in the real world things "non-standard" sometimes happen. The owner is a fedex capt and has much "clout" with many DPE's. Trust me, I know plenty of pilots who went through the program and I am not impressed. Can we say "buy a license"?

HotMamaPilot

Just as I cannot prove that they "just pass" pilots, can you prove that they do not? all high and mighty. And yes they do use certain DPE's who will NOT fail applicants. And everyone has an option to go to any University or local FBO. Both of which are better options.

flynavyj

highly doubt an academy is the only option. And the only reason i believe most people are against academies is they tend to sugar coat things a little much and show a great emphasis on the potentially positivie instead of the potentially negative aspects of a flying career, and in many cases have been known to make empty promises to potential students and alumni alike. The other major complaint about pilot factories is they cost an extensive amount of money, which tends to place the pilot who finally completes the academy severly in debt which may be difficult to recover within his/her lifetime.

Same token, any good university can place a person severly in debt. The difference as people normally state is you could get a degree in something that'll allow you to pay it off, however, the vast majority of people i know are struggling to pay off their university debt, and will be struggling to do so for years to come.

To mike, no...what you describe is a FBO, not a factory of any kind.

Another thought on the academy's though, it would seem like the airlines would really like the academies especially if they were able to provide them with the curriculum they'd like to see. It would guarentee standardization from the pilot applicants experience level, and as a result, they would have people that would be geared to pass initial training. Which, would probably improve pass ratings and level the playing field for the airline.

bla bla bla

Why would any one pay for crj training? Dont get it? Regionals are desperate for pilots. You have a pulse, and the mins, you will get an interview right now. Maybe a better question is, why would any one come into this industry?
Pardon my bluntness, but what are you thinking?
Flight schools are full of $hit. Do the exact opposite of what they tell you and you will be all right.

HotMamaPilot

WHAT HE SAID

ctd57

You don't understand the program, it is meant as a basic intro to how a CRJ functions, and yes ATP does have some letters of agreement with certain regionals, but that is to interview only, you still have to get yourself through the interview. Talk about a waste of money, if it takes you 4 months to understand how a gas turbine engine works and systems for another 4 months you have bigger things to worry about than ATP's CRJ course. The Gas Turbine Engine is one of the easiest parts of a jet to understand. It does not take 8 months to understand a CRJ.

[B[/B]Well, HotMamaPilot, let me tell you one thing, I used to work for ATP, and they DO NOT have DPE's on their payroll. I know for a fact that DPE's are not there just to pass people. As professional pilots themselves, why would they pass someone who isn't safe or deficient in some aspect of flying? You may not agree with ATP and how they do business,but what you are saying is totally wrong. I worked for them for over a year and they don't pay off DPE's. Where did you do all of your flight training? Just curious. Every DPE I have come across or personally know through ATP, have failed plenty of ATP students. ATP removes students from the program who cannot meet the standards, so tell me how that is buying your certificates. What do they get from DPE's passing people who cannot meet the PTS, nothing. Why would ATP let 2 students who just "bought" their instrument rating, let them fly an airplane all over the place. Just for kicks, name me one DPE who ATP "employs" that won't fail a student or is on their payroll.

HotMamaPilot

WHat would they get out of passing peops? well for one, a high sucess rate, which encourages others to sign up so they can go to XJT. number two, money in the DPE's pocket. I personally know several DPE's and half of them are as crooked as a dog's hind leg.
I'm sorry, but you "working there" does not constitute knowledge of what goes on "behind the scenes"

I went to a four year Catholic U. That is besides the point though; I respect those who get all of their tickets at an FBO(or four year U) and work there way up the ranks.....not just buy a RJ right seat(as they do at ATP)

ctd57

I went to a four year Catholic U. That is besides the point though; I respect those who get all of their tickets at an FBO(or four year U) and work there way up the ranks.....not just buy a RJ right seat(as they do at ATP)

So what are the ranks, lets see.
1. Student
2. Instructor
3. Right Seat at a Regional Airline

If you want to talk about people who skip step #2, then you need to talk to the people who go through Mesa's Pilot Development program or whatever it is called. No one comes to ATP and after getting their certificates, goes straight into a right seat of a RJ at 250-300 hours. Well, ATP does have the Airline Transition Program, but I really don't agree with that one even though those guys have more than the Mesa students, but only a few have done that program. Over 95% of all pilots that come out of ATP, did the Career Pilot Program, instructed, and then moved on. But in your mind you wouldn't respect me because I went through the career program, instructed, and now I am on with a regional, and I also have a 4 year degree from state university, and not to mention a LT in the United States Naval Reserves, but I guess none of that matters in your mind. In the long run, we all have FAA certificates, the FAA doesn't care where they came from, I personally hold nothing against anyone because of where they EARNED their certificates and ratings from. The only people who care about that kind of stuff are pilots like you. I respect people based on who they are, not because of what flight school they attended. Maybe you should try the same. And if you have flown with people from ATP who were bad pilots, than maybe the airline you fly for needs to look at their training programs and maybe weed out the weaker pilots. I hold nothing against you personally, I don't know who you are, but I would never say that I wouldn't respect pilots based on that.