Eagle TA
08-21-2012 | 02:13 PM
#151
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 149
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I just spoke to an ALPA rep. He said he is resigning because of extensive corruption at the leadership level. Apparently Tony didnt have enough votes at "rollcall" to get the TA passed and sent to pilots to vote on. So Tony made some phone calls to ALPA Lead HDQ's and got something "over-rided" and got it passed so he could continue with "tony's agenda".
This Rep said he is looking for a replacement for his representative position and as soon as he is formally resigned he will be writing a lengthy letter to ALPA HDQ and to AE pilots explaining the experiences he had and what he saw and enlighten AE pilots on the extensive corruption and loopholes that are written in ALPA "bylaws" that are available to ALPA leaders to achieve what they want when they dont have the votes they need by ALPA reps.
Crazy! It's Washington DC politics!
(yes now you know who i am on talkairline, i dont care, it's more important to me that AE pilots are informed about this all)
This Rep said he is looking for a replacement for his representative position and as soon as he is formally resigned he will be writing a lengthy letter to ALPA HDQ and to AE pilots explaining the experiences he had and what he saw and enlighten AE pilots on the extensive corruption and loopholes that are written in ALPA "bylaws" that are available to ALPA leaders to achieve what they want when they dont have the votes they need by ALPA reps.
Crazy! It's Washington DC politics!
(yes now you know who i am on talkairline, i dont care, it's more important to me that AE pilots are informed about this all)
08-21-2012 | 08:32 PM
#152
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
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Saw this on another forum but relates to this discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FROM THE MEC with MY NOTES.
August 16, 2012
Fellow American Eagle Pilots:
Last Wednesday evening, our Negotiating Committee reached an Agreement-in-Principle (AIP) with management regarding changes to our collective bargaining agreement in lieu of management’s proposed bankruptcy term sheet. Despite our best efforts to negotiate a shorter duration with job security provisions, the AIP includes an 8-year duration (with an amendment round at year 4) in exchange for furlough protection/job security provisions. Management has also offered the choice of either a 6-year duration without furlough protection/job security (with an amendment round still at year 4) or remaining with the AIP’s 8-year duration (also with an amendment round still at year 4) with the furlough protection/job security provisions. All other AIP elements would remain the same.
The furlough protection/job security provided only with the 8-year duration includes the following key provisions:
• While Eagle remains (well the MEC says were still going to be divested, so this is moot B.S.) a wholly-owned subsidiary of AMR and AMR/AA do not merge with another carrier (here come US AIRWAYS, makes this moot also), Eagle will furlough protect the lesser of the number of pilots required to staff 205-216 aircraft (at a calculation of approximately 9.6 pilots per aircraft which equals 1,968 (205 X 9.6) to 2,074 (216 X 9.6) pilots ) or the pilots required to staff 60% of the AA’s total regional network (So they are telling you AA will reduce AE by 40%). This number would fluctuate within that range depending on the number of aircraft in the fleet each year.
• If Eagle is divested (Again the MEC has been saying that the divestiture is still on for after bankruptcy) or if AMR/AA merges with another carrier (Such as US Airways) while Eagle is still wholly-owned, (Explain the difference from the requirement from the above bullit point and this one) furlough protection will be provided to 95% of the Eagle pilots on the Eagle seniority list as of the AIP’s date of signing. Eagle (with ALPA’s oversight) will identify the pilot who is 95% down the seniority list. That pilot, and every pilot senior to him, shall be furlough protected in the event of a divestiture or AA merger with another carrier. For example, if AA merges with USAirways, that pilot 95% down the seniority list and everyone senior will receive this job protection. (There is nothing here that states this contract and this part especially will be automatically honored by any new owner of AE or what ever it is called, the above is just and example, so again moot).
• If EGL is employing surplus pilots due to the furlough protections above, then AA will increase the percent of training slots in new hire classes available to Eagle pilots. For the “824” group entering AA new hire training, AA will now provide a minimum of 60% (up from 50%) of the new hire training slots to Eagle pilots ( well since it is 1 for every 2, then 60% equals 1.2 pilots. In other words every 5 classes they will get on extra seat). For the “protected pilots,” AA will now provide a minimum of 50% (up from 35%) of the new hire training slots to Eagle pilots. All other provisions of the “824” and “protected pilot” agreements remain in effect. (While Eagle is still wholly owned? What happens if Eagle is sold, AE Vice Chairman said the 824 letter cancels, no one goes anywhere)
Given these two options on duration, your MEC decided that ou r pilots should be provided a chance to weigh in on this subject by participating in this on-line poll. The choice is either a 6-year term without the above-mentioned furlough protection language or an 8-year term with the furlough protection provisions. The MEC will review the results of this process and take them into account when deciding on a final language Tentative Agreement (TA).
This is a poll on duration, not a vote for or against the potential ‘TA’. Put another way, this is an opportunity to express your preference on which duration provisions should be included in a final language ‘TA’. ( I am not being asked what I would like, I am being told this is it, like it or not ) After the MEC approves a final language ‘TA’ and after road shows explaining the ‘TA’, you will then have the opportunity to vote on the final language ‘TA’ through a formal ratification ballot.
Fraternally,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FROM THE MEC with MY NOTES.
August 16, 2012
Fellow American Eagle Pilots:
Last Wednesday evening, our Negotiating Committee reached an Agreement-in-Principle (AIP) with management regarding changes to our collective bargaining agreement in lieu of management’s proposed bankruptcy term sheet. Despite our best efforts to negotiate a shorter duration with job security provisions, the AIP includes an 8-year duration (with an amendment round at year 4) in exchange for furlough protection/job security provisions. Management has also offered the choice of either a 6-year duration without furlough protection/job security (with an amendment round still at year 4) or remaining with the AIP’s 8-year duration (also with an amendment round still at year 4) with the furlough protection/job security provisions. All other AIP elements would remain the same.
The furlough protection/job security provided only with the 8-year duration includes the following key provisions:
• While Eagle remains (well the MEC says were still going to be divested, so this is moot B.S.) a wholly-owned subsidiary of AMR and AMR/AA do not merge with another carrier (here come US AIRWAYS, makes this moot also), Eagle will furlough protect the lesser of the number of pilots required to staff 205-216 aircraft (at a calculation of approximately 9.6 pilots per aircraft which equals 1,968 (205 X 9.6) to 2,074 (216 X 9.6) pilots ) or the pilots required to staff 60% of the AA’s total regional network (So they are telling you AA will reduce AE by 40%). This number would fluctuate within that range depending on the number of aircraft in the fleet each year.
• If Eagle is divested (Again the MEC has been saying that the divestiture is still on for after bankruptcy) or if AMR/AA merges with another carrier (Such as US Airways) while Eagle is still wholly-owned, (Explain the difference from the requirement from the above bullit point and this one) furlough protection will be provided to 95% of the Eagle pilots on the Eagle seniority list as of the AIP’s date of signing. Eagle (with ALPA’s oversight) will identify the pilot who is 95% down the seniority list. That pilot, and every pilot senior to him, shall be furlough protected in the event of a divestiture or AA merger with another carrier. For example, if AA merges with USAirways, that pilot 95% down the seniority list and everyone senior will receive this job protection. (There is nothing here that states this contract and this part especially will be automatically honored by any new owner of AE or what ever it is called, the above is just and example, so again moot).
• If EGL is employing surplus pilots due to the furlough protections above, then AA will increase the percent of training slots in new hire classes available to Eagle pilots. For the “824” group entering AA new hire training, AA will now provide a minimum of 60% (up from 50%) of the new hire training slots to Eagle pilots ( well since it is 1 for every 2, then 60% equals 1.2 pilots. In other words every 5 classes they will get on extra seat). For the “protected pilots,” AA will now provide a minimum of 50% (up from 35%) of the new hire training slots to Eagle pilots. All other provisions of the “824” and “protected pilot” agreements remain in effect. (While Eagle is still wholly owned? What happens if Eagle is sold, AE Vice Chairman said the 824 letter cancels, no one goes anywhere)
Given these two options on duration, your MEC decided that ou r pilots should be provided a chance to weigh in on this subject by participating in this on-line poll. The choice is either a 6-year term without the above-mentioned furlough protection language or an 8-year term with the furlough protection provisions. The MEC will review the results of this process and take them into account when deciding on a final language Tentative Agreement (TA).
This is a poll on duration, not a vote for or against the potential ‘TA’. Put another way, this is an opportunity to express your preference on which duration provisions should be included in a final language ‘TA’. ( I am not being asked what I would like, I am being told this is it, like it or not ) After the MEC approves a final language ‘TA’ and after road shows explaining the ‘TA’, you will then have the opportunity to vote on the final language ‘TA’ through a formal ratification ballot.
Fraternally,
08-22-2012 | 12:06 AM
#153
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105
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From: seated facing forward
Thank goodness we have a newbie to come save us from ourselves. Sorry kid, the APA has been negotiating contracts since probably before you were born.
You sound like a kid at his first airline job, first union job, first bankruptcy.
Let them impose anything they want and not negotiate in good faith. 500 will retire the next day as the tip of the iceberg.
You sound like a kid at his first airline job, first union job, first bankruptcy.
Let them impose anything they want and not negotiate in good faith. 500 will retire the next day as the tip of the iceberg.
08-22-2012 | 06:37 PM
#154
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 0
From: forever fo
the union is cramming this thing down our throats, I am getting 3 emails per day of propaganda, and a phone call from the stupid automated system every 48 hours with a blast pre recorded message. Its clear they are hoping that 51% of the pilots are typical Americans that will fall for propaganda, and seeing their stuff all the time and thus buying right in to it.
08-22-2012 | 07:49 PM
#155
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 562
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Our mec is like the girlfriend that always ask if you're cheating, eventually you do it just so you can say yes I'am. Well the mec has bugged me so much lately i'm giving a no vote just cause.(i still would have voted no, who the hell says yes I'll give you authority to cut my pay).
08-23-2012 | 06:34 PM
#160
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105
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From: seated facing forward
I may have moved into the yes camp. And no, I'm not trolling. Making the company actually file the 1113 and resting our fate with the court does hold some intrigue. Ultimately, the company would be successful at rejecting our contract. We are better off in the likely event of a merger if we have an enforceable, consensual aggreement. Operating under imposed terms, no contract, during merger discussions would be a bad position.
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