what is the AEPA?

I wish we could get these LEC reps and MEC leadership out. I cant recalled the last time an LEC meeting was held down here in MIA.

And if you talk to most of the groups that use PBS that the pilot group was able to obtain so much of the control.

When and how long were you at ASA?

Then you should look for another job.

It will if you do not have control or more control than management.

If you are really wanting to learn about PBS I will be more than happy to give you some insight.

Almost every PBS system out there, Navtec, Carmen and many others are not true seniority based systems. They are called Globalized systems. Flightline is the only true seniority based system.

Talk to the guys at VA, they use Flightline.

The important thing is to learn how the system works. After more than a year I am still finding different ways to do the same task in PBS and it just improves the end result.

CRJ's 700-900?? Shhweeet!

At half the price, yes sweet as you say, not.

Following are quotes from another forum--AIP is Agreement in Principle--appears to be a different name but does the same as a TA

---If the AIP was reasonable and fair to the American Eagle pilots, even during the bankruptcy, it would not be necessary to threaten the American Eagle pilots.

It has been reported to the AEPA that ALPA MEC member and MIA Council Representative Peter Wallace has told American Eagle pilots that if the pilots do not agree to the Tentative Agreement (derived from the AIP) management has stated thatit will "liquidate" American Eagle Airlines.

AS the AEPA has previously stated, when ALPA and management determine that the American Eagle pilots will not roll over or bend over, the threats and intimidation will begin. MIA ALPA Representative Peter Wallace has already begun to threaten the American Eagle pilots.

---The SJU rep has recently stated that the union find out where some pilots are getting there accurate information and have those pilots fired. This the same rep that was drunk and passed out during the last MEC teleconference.

DR is upset that the AE pilots are getting accurate information that is being hidden from them.

The MEC told the LEC's that the vote on the AIP was just that, a vote on principle but TG now is saying that the AIP is the same as the TA. In other words the LEC's were told they are not voting on a TA and are now being told that the vote on the AIP was a vote for the TA.

Rumors has it also that the F/O rep in ORD has used his position to network with Delta ALPA leaders to gain a position at DAL as an instructor. The F/O rep in ORD loyalties are not for the pilots at AE but to guaranteeing his position at DAL. He should resign effective immediately.

VOTE NO
TAKE IT TO THE JUDGE
TEAM TONY RESIGN NOW

Hey, better than nothing.

I hope you're kidding.

You really should have your SJS problem looked at.

Based purely on a Buisness to Employee relationship, employees approving a contract while the company is in bankruptcy ALWAYS benefits the company and not the employees. You would be far better off negotiating out of bankruptcy. Basic Buisness 101.

I'm wondering too..there's a lot of good information in that letter. I just want to know if they're a credible source, or some guys in a basement with tin foil hats on :D

yes credible

better half brain than a whole brain.
yeap, that is what we have to deal with at AE.
from union leaders all the way to the new hire.

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but maybe all these leaks from management over new planes are just proverbial carrots to get our SJS acting up. I have flown with, although not very often, some pretty senior guys that get excited at the first breath of new planes (I'm sure there's even more FOs). When looking at this AIP, and eventually the TA, they sort through all the garbage with the mentioning of new, bigger jets poking in the back of their noggins...

true, if you font have it dont get a hard on.
promises with holes, not even promises just an insert.

Judge Lane
 

So the judge rejected AMR's request to abrogate the APA contract.

Now AMR has to go back and update their code share and furlough language.

I wonder if we shouldn't take our time before rushing through our contract language....

I would like some of our own airplanes, not ones owned by American airlines. For the pbs discussion, it isnt the end of the world but until we have clear language governing its implementation, I'm a solid no vote.

Is this SC by any chance?

Yes, we need to slow our roll, big time. This is huge. American Eagle hasn't even filed an 1113 with the court. I say vote no, let them file and then negotiate knowing judge Lane is thoughtful.

he will only give amr the average, nothing more than the average.
VOTE NO
TAKE IT TO THE JUDGE

my biggest no reason is the stupid 6 or 8 years. Anything over 4 is BS in my book.

No is the best answer given the recent news.

The other contracts
 

I know AMR will distribute flying to Skywest and Republic as soon as they can, but foes anyone have avoid grasp on their contracts? I'm wondering how much Skywest/Express Jet or Republic pilots get paid. I was under the impression that Skywest has their fair share of senior pilots who get paid as well as the other regionals.


TC

Its all to be seen. My take is AMR has about 300 280 planes at the RJ level, and wants a 25% increase. Sounds like Skywest wants some, but how much are they willing to take on, everyone is worried about recruiting, and how much will they be charging. I could see Eagle only slightly smaller and having most the large RJs and having the 50 seat flying mostly bid out. Due to attrition we could end up not even furloughing in the end, and hiring instead. The next few years are uncharted waters with the FTDT and 1500 rule, along with some insane retirement numbers at mainline.

What happens at AA is to be seen, but we might be better off voting it down.

the letter raises some good points, but has some weak areas too.

author is looking for a "fleet plan", but admits we're probably merging/getting bought by US Air..goodbye fleet plan, business plan, etc etc when that happens. Remember when all the TV's at the gates said "LARGEST AIRCRAFT ORDER EVAR!!!!!" for AA? Clearly a fleet plan doesn't mean squat, and can change at any time. Do the best with what you have, and don't paint yourself into a corner for future negotiations.

A friend of a friend overheard garton and winkley talking on their phones about getting -900s?? What's next, eagle getting the 319's? We have no idea what the scope clause looks like going forward, so any "facts" here are educated guesses AT BEST. Even if i were to believe the stories provided in the letter, you still must consider the source. Winkley was the guy who told some of our december '11 new hires that 'you'll be fine, dont worry about the bk' and a week later they were furloughed. Best taken with a bit of salt IMO.

Still, the letter does make some good points. No sense in rushing anything at this point, too many unknowns and/or moving parts. Also, I agree that under our current business model, eagle is most likely profitable and labor costs are actually more reasonable than we've been led to believe. Tough to argue that we need to take concessions, but unfortunately in BK we're instantly at a disadvantage. The Ch. 11 process is nothing more than a vehicle to restructure some debt and break down the unions, especially when you've got $5 billion in the bank when you enter.....

Not sure about RAH but SKW payscale goes to 20 years, captains make more than AE and FOs make more than AE. Their FAs also get paid better than AE. I also know that their management sent out documents saying that SKW is the most expensive regional in terms of labor, and they are the second most profitable. According to them, guess who the most profitable regional is. Yup, eagle.

Edit: I would like to point out that their FOs flying the CRJ-200 make more than the FOs flying the -700 here at Eagle. How SKW could do the flying cheaper than AE is beyond me.

Eagle ground handling is taking over new contracts every week all over this country, I wouldn't be surprised in a year if they were the largest ground handling company domestically. Throw in a refreshed fleet of airplanes at Eagle and pay cuts, sounds like it could generate a bunch of cash via a spin off. That would be great if they want to buy another company.

Just about everything coming out of St. George is a mystery....

Devil is in the details. The details are in PBS and work rules. Pay rates are not everything that why this Aip is so shady. I guarantee if you compare your w2 to a skywest pilot of the same longevity and working the same hours a year I would be 100% confident that the eagle pilots made more and had a happier home life. PBS is there to ruin your life and cut your earnings even if your payrates don't change.

Apa showed some balls and were not scared into the unknown. Find a UAL pilot and ask them how voting in their own bankruptcy contract is working out for them. Guess what 10 years later they are still working under it and they did it to themselves because they were scared of the judge.

VOTE NO!!!'

I think you both need to read Judge Lane's full ruling before you say he is thoughtful or will only give AMR average. Judge Lane will give AMR anything they ask for as long as they show him why they need it. Read his full ruling and then tell me we aren't F-ed.

I am going to have to agree with you. As soon as AMR makes the modifications with respect to code sharing and furloughs, they'll get what they want. Having said that, I am a no vote because 8 years is far too long, especially with what was offered. I would rather take my chances with Judge Lane, and negotiate a new contract exiting BK. AA sacked up, now it's our turn.

Make the company lay it's cards on the table. I did read the ruling, and Judge Lane made it clear that AMR did not need unlimited codesharing because the competition did not have it. If American Eagle actually files an 1113 motion, then they will have to prove how the changes to our contract are needed. That could be difficult, since no other regional has contract terms as draconian as the term sheet. A scary path indeed, but maybe one we should take.

Really are you sure me and you have the same ruling. He is ok with paying AA pilots only 60% of sick time and have 88 seat RJs. He would have been ok unlimited codesharing if the business plan called for it. I can't see how anyone can read that and no see Judge Lane will give AMR anything they want.

You should see the 1113 just proposed to the Pinnacle pilot group. It makes your term sheet look like a great offer.

Our original 1113 and your 1113 are almost the same. You will get some TA like we are getting that will be much better. The real question is what is the long term plan for Eagle and what is the long term plan for PNCL. That also will shape different agreements for each group, based on different desired uses long term.

Some things are similar, but they are not even close to being the same. Pinnacle's 1113 is much worse. They have the same proposed cuts as us plus the following:

Pinnacle's

*Pay Rates. The proposal includes significant reductions in pay rates for Captains, ranging (according to the company) from 7 to 24% from current rates. There have also been further reductions in the proposed single First Office rates beyond one year of longevity.

*Pay Scales. The company has proposed capping pay for Captains at 12 “steps” and capping First Officer pay at 4 years of service. Moreover, the company is seeking a provision to require pilots who upgrade to begin at “Step 1” Captain pay, no matter their prior longevity as a First Officer (or, for pilots who have been previously downgraded due to a displacement, their time as a Captain). Such a scheme would be unique in our industry.

* Uniform Allowance. Eliminate uniform allowance.

*Per Diem. Eliminate Per Diem on day trips.

*Reserve Days Off. Reduction of minimum days off for reserve pilots to 10.

*Health Care. Instead of the two CDHP plans proposed in the May 8 term sheet, the revised term sheet includes only a single HRA plan, with a 35% pilot contribution.


I may have missed a few things, but I think I got most of them. I was ****ed when I say Eagle's original 1113. If they proposed an 1113 like Pinnacle's to us, I would have said go ahead and burn the mo fo down!

.....and Eagle pilots can expect ALPA to highlight the draconian details of the Pinnacle sheet in the hope it will make theirs look like Boston cream pie. :cool:

Make no mistake, Eagle ALPA has an agenda and manipulating their own pilots is a given.

They already sent out the comparison!!
also sent out how the votes were cast by the LEC for the TA
ORD = yes (of course)
DFW = both abstained (wussys)
LAX = NO

I forget the rest, but at least LAX was smart