MAN OVER BOARD! MAN OVER BOARD! There's no use Skipper... "He's a goner! He's with them now..."

ya it shows us between 210 and 220 airplanes ABOUT. Thats about 2500 pilots, maybe even more with the up coming FTDT. My Dad told me the rumor at United is 500 hired this fall/winter/2013spring, and 500+ a year for years. I think everyone else is not far behind that. If you think over the next 18 months close to 1000 pilots wont be leaving Eagle, I think your not seeing the bigger picture. In the next 15 years over 40,000 pilots will retire at the big 6 airlines. Do you want a 6 year contract or maybe 8 that is mediocre, but has some huge hidden short falls, or do you want to enter back into negotiations this spring, when I bet you Eagle is suddenly NEEDING to hiring again, and entering into the hardest recruiting time ever. I think with the TA they can fool people into coming here, as its a hit on the soft money, not hourly rate, however the 1113, not a single person will work here, unless they want the felons and drunks, that normally goto lakes and silver.

Same if we get sold off, or merged, or anything, do you want this 6 year turd full of loop holes, or do you want to be 1113 for a few months?? I would rather take the risk of losing my job here and make a stand, then bend over and once again lower the industry bar in hopes that I dont lose it.

Thats what the AA guys are doing, they are trying to show enough is enough, and they are willing to have the entire place go belly up, if thats what it takes. Its time that people stop giving up so much money in hopes it saves their jobs, when all they are really doing is fueling management bonuses.

If this TA becomes our contract your looking at about 20% less income AT LEAST. Your year end final pay will be about 20% less, unless you work more than you are now to make up for it. I refuse to agree to that. I would rather the 1113 and take a 40% cut for 6 months, to at most a year, I think over 3 years the blow would be less to my wallet and my QOL would end up ten times better. THATS IF THE JUDGE ALLOWS THEIR 1113, I dont think he will because its WAY below industry average, they cant block us in with great lakes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoJet http://www.****************/forum/im...s/viewpost.gif
It won't be six months to a year under imposed terms. It will be much longer than that. What makes you think the company will be motivated to negotiate a new contract when we are working without one? It would easily be 4-6 years under imposed terms.

because A. THEY WILL HAVE TO HIRE, no matter if they get rid of another 100 airplanes, more people will be leaving, ESP with the 1113. The industry over the next 18 months will suck people out of here faster than they can park planes. They dont want that road, they know they are better taking advantage of the fact they have a well staffed Eagle, and manipulating what they bid out from there.

B. Productivity will go to crap at Eagle. We do 95% of their feed, which is 50% of their domestic flying. The AA guys are about to unleash Satins Ahole on this place, do you really think they want to follow up with Eagle doing the same. They cant bid out that much right now, most other regionals are scared about staffing the contracts they have, which have HUGE fees if they are not completed.

C. This is a game of poker, and we are getting bluffed really bad, we have a straight, they want us to think they have flush, but in the end they have two pairs...which is two pairs more than our union seems to have!

I think they will need to hire no matter what in the next 6-8 months, and with the 1113 imposed, there is no chance in hell anyone will come to work here. Thus I think at that point they will just give us back our old contract. Plus I think they want to sell/spin off eagle to spur up a ton of cash to buy someone else, thats why I think we will get most of the 70-90 seat airplanes, and why they have been growing the living day lights out of the ground handling. Skywest recently said they were the second most profitable regional, BEHIND EAGLE.


Most important its a clear message that the MEC and half the LECs must go!!!

At AE with an imposed 1113 there will be no spin off.
At AE with the 1113 imposed and AE is spun off, management will have to get a contract with the pilots fast if they want to find financing and attract pilots ( because alot will leave with 1113)
At AE with an 1113 inoposed, AE will not be able to attract replacement pilots to fill the void from everyone leaving and going to DAL, UCAL or US Airways and WN.

In other words, this is not a good time for AE to be imposing an 1113 or for that any regional in BK or looking at BK other than to reduce there debt and renegotiate leases.

Why would anyone go work at a company with an imposed 1113 with the new FTDT kicking in next year?

everyone please think long and hard about the benefits of voting no, how our union might possibly be very corrupt and fill our inbox's with their propaganda. How we might save ourselves from 6 years of a huge hit on our pay via softmoney, and maybe even do this industry some good by voting it down. Stop fearing the unknown, and realize that this TA is just as much unknown of an outcome as the 1113 process. The only thing known for sure is that the duration is 6 years, nothing more about fleet or any REAL job security.

About 8 years ago American Eagle hired an outside Public Relations company to present American Eagles case to the public and the pilots of American Eagle.
That company is ALPA American Eagle Master Executive Chairman and Vice Chairman.

The company very seldom makes comments to public, that function, management delegated to there hired firm ALPA AE MEC. Death is upon us, the glass is half empty, we are running out of gas, the end is near, get my drift. That is the ALPA AE MEC. Only proper place for them is in the TOILET.

VOTE NO
TAKE IT TO THE JUDGE
GROW A PAIR

Still a Yes vote. More than ever! Im educating FOs on it too.

I'm an FO that needs to be edumacated. So edumacate me. Please... What am I missing?

Spellcheck?

I believe his is talking about why you are a yes vote. Spell it out for us.

I'm a no vote. A rejection of this TA does not necessarily mean AMR will automatically file that crappy term sheet. Why on earth would we accept the company's "first" negotiated offer? Hello negotiating 101 - kick it back and send a message - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! They are not fixing the problem that got us here to begin with.
The MEC is playing right into he company's hands. What he company really wants is PBS so they put a very low value on it then add a bunch of deal breakers like taking a week of vacation and throw in PBS with a very low value. The MEC fell for it. They said no you can't take our vacation but and by the way you undervalued PBS so lets make a deal. Company hot exactly what it wanted all along and the MEC acts like they dis us a huge favor! The more value on PBS the worse out work rules are going to be.
If the company were to file that latest term sheet and than refuse to negotiate during the 1113 process, how well do you think that would I with the judge? Judge Lane is no fool. If AMR seeks to impose archaic terms after reaching a consensual agreement with our MEC for something else that they acknowledge they can accept, then the judge will see thru that.
Can't you see that a NO vote is not an automatic implantation of that crappy term sheet? It is just the start of another process. Please people, lets stand together and grow a backbone!

Its to my advantage, I have a couple years left. Flying something bigger than a C7 would be nice.

Please edumacate me too. You need to be educated. J/k

But no seriously. Me and possibly some others want to hear good points for why it is a yes. Why it's beneficial to vote yes. What are we missing that your/we are going to get out of it?

Remember... The captains who waited 9-10 years to upgrade thought in 2002 they'd only be here for a year or two, just like you mentioned. Things happens with the industry. The corporation. Outsourcing. Fleet shrinkage. The economy. And unfortunately other crazy things like 9/11. I would strongly suggest you be very careful stating you'll be here for another 2 years. Especially if you aren't competitive to go to a major or major cargo airline by being a FO.

Dont think that those things I mention in italics are prevented by this contract.

Edit: I just realized that your likely a captain so ya ur likely competitive to go on. By why screw the group?

From my understanding other than AE management giving the MEC a sheet of paper titled 1113, they management have nothing filed in the BK. AE management has not spent one day in court, so in order for AE to begin they will have to submit a business plan and the why's for the cuts.

A NO vote does nothing negative to the pilots since this is all being done outside of the court jurisdiction. A no vote will require the company if it chooses to go to court and file. This what AE/AMR want to avoid in doing because it will light the fires at APA and every other union at AA when they actually see the business plan for AE.

A vote NO only pushes management where they dont want to go, they would have to either sweeten the pot or roll the dice on AE going to court.

AE cannot justify there position in BK court because every other regional management is stating publicly that AE is the number one profitable regional today with its current contracts.

If AE is to get screwed over it can only happen by AA/AMR, so they would have to take an opposite position to the one AA/AMR have taken on AE and that wont happen.

So a vote NO does nothing but go back to the table.

We have 1500 flights a day. It's not going to disappear in a few years. Where's it going to go? Half or one-quarter of our flying will be very difficult for an regional to pick up. Remember some airlines (pinnacolaba) has no money to invest in an expansion. Psa just announced vacancy and hiring.

If AMR wants feed. Which it HAS to get for the AA flights, they need people to fly da planes.

Garton knows this and that's why (a year ago?) he sent a multiple page document arguing 1500 hour rule and rest. They know it.

What might be a good point for somebody to vote yes might be a point for somebody to vote no. Think about it like this, pay banding might not be a bad thing for a older CA in the EMB that doesn't want to go to the CRJ but can now get CRJ pay. But for somebody like me pay banding is a bad thing because I will never get CRJ pay even if I fly the CRJ. For somebody with less then 7-8 years left the TA is going to be better then anything we get from the judge. Some points suck for everyone and some are good for everyone, but most can go either way based on the person.

This just in...
 

I found This quote from the latest union email to be just rich considering what happened at Comair in '09....


Guaranteed aircraft is the same thing as guaranteed jobs; it is a specified allotment of aircraft that yield a corresponding number of employed pilots.

Samballs have you seen this yet?

They are right, but I am also the same person who kept telling people a fleet plan is meaningless. So yes guaranteed jobs and a fleet plan are the same in the fact they are both meaningless numbers.

All AE pilots should read this. I believe only DFW pilots receive this email and all system wide pilots should be aware of this.

------Original Message------

*
*
*
*********************************
August 24, 2012
*
*
Fellow DFW Pilots,
*
The MEC chairman decided that he wanted a DFW pilot teleconference to address pilots' concerns about the AIP.
*
We told the SPC Committee chairman that we did not want this teleconference scheduled because we would not be able to moderate the call nor were we assured that the opinions of your elected leadership would take precedence over the opinions of the MEC chairman.
*
Additionally, none of your LEC officers are available to conduct any type of teleconference at the appointed time.
*
When we asked the SPC chairman to reschedule this teleconference so that our concerns could be addressed, we were told that the MEC chairman wanted the meeting in our domicile at this time and that he would not reschedule it.
*
I cannot explain the actions of the MEC leadership, nor do I understand the rush. What is clearly apparent to me is that the MEC chairman wants to bypass your elected leaders and communicate directly with you. You must make your own judgment on this.
*
We will schedule a LEC meeting soon so that you can speak directly with the leaders that you elected and not have the filters of the MEC officers.
*
Fraternally,
*
[deleted private info]

My biggest reason for changing my mind to yes, I want an enforceable, consensual agreement exiting bankruptcy. I don't want to enter into mergers/spinoffs/standalones without an agreement.

Yup, I remember that. We got a nice line guaranteeing aircraft not pilots. They parked 37? And furloughed the crap out of comair. Im voting no, but I'm sick and tired of hearing people say AA can't find a carrier to pick it up. Yes they can and they will. When DL did it to comair, rah, mesa, etc. Just came to cvg and hired the furloughs. How does anyone think gojets is covering all they're new flying? Simple they hired comair management and hired comair pilots. Its not hard to do. Only ones who can't figure it out are the people saying it can't be done. With that said lets vote this turd down, and show management what suck feels like. Sorry if this post sucks but typing on my phone and Google seems to be owning my spelling and overall sentence building ability!

Exactly, there will be no pilot shortage at American Eagle.

it will some how get ripped up, or we get merged into skywest with the worst contract, and get fenced off till its up.....FUN!!!

I want them to file the 1113 paperwork first, so we can see a real plan, oh wait they have not even put one single paper into court......hmmmmm

Team Tony OUT NOW

I disagree, Comair was during a huge downturn for the majors, and no 1500 hour rule.

The FTDT requires more pilots, the 1500 hour rule cuts off the supply, and the amount of pilots coming in is back to 1930 levels. Add into that 35,000 pilots retiring over the next 15 years from the biggest 8, and you have a mess. They know it, and they are scared beyond belief at the RJ level. Wait till United hires 500 in the next 6 months, and soon all the others follow suit.

Sucks 2000 out of the regionals in 10 months, while require more for FTDT and cutting the new hires to a dribble. I think this time, they wont be able to just get guys to come to the new place, they wont even be able to keep up with attrition.

Nice attitude. Two questions, has the company told you, you are going to be flying bigger metal? Second, is the company going to pay you more money for flying said metal?

No, NO.....and voting no is also not a firm reason to assume it changes the chances of flying those planes.

Its all unknown, no matter what happens.

I believe what RJ is saying is. He is a captain now on the CRJ7 and only needs to be around another year or 2 to get his PIC necessary to leave. And he is expecting that they will hire him. And all he needs is a YES vote to keep eagle from going anywhere, or his CA seat from going anywhere, for just a couple years. And after that he can give a flying ____ about what happens to the other pilots cus he has it in his mind that he'll move on to the Major of his choice.

Sam,

I'm a big no vote for many of the reasons being stated. However, the captains I fly with who've spent the last 20 years flying the Bahamas are all going to vote for what ever is put in front of them....they're all scared of being the next Comair and don't realize that by voting these concessions in you've prevented nothing.

The other thing they are all locked in on is no drop in their hourly rate. PBS is going to insure they take home less money next year than this year.

Then you should've left AE.

voting yes or voting no, the outcome of this company will still be the same. The 35 million a year in savings, is not going to change the outcome. If they do plan on shrinking us to death, which I doubt, it wont matter how you vote.

Looks like an 8yr deal for us. All we need now is this thing to pass, and it will.

...........

I just have to scratch my head. In 3 years pilots have the opportunity to be in the driver's seat and now we're locked into this deal until 2021.... I know, we can talk in 4 years.

Well. We will be voting on an 8 year contract...

43% of pilots voted. Of who voted, 66% voted for 8 year.

...Why dont pilots vote...drives me crazy

Maybe 57% have blocked the annoying union propaganda, I mean emails and recorded phone calls. Thus they never knew or cared.

No. They just believe the union. Because, after all, they ARE fighting for us. Right!? Our union really sticks it to the company and gets us the BEST deal possible! And we have to give up SO MUCH to allow this company to make so much money.

Disappointing. Now the fight is for a NO but I wouldn't expect much more than half our pilots to even vote. They're drinking the Tony juice just like Jonestown, Guyana.

not the tony constelation urine.

They are far from the same thing.

You don't have to tell me. I was one of the guys furloughed in '09 and I was walked past my guaranteed fleet on the way out the door.

TC

Are you still working for eagle?

A huge downturn at the majors? That's been the norm since 9/11. Every other regional was hiring in droves. As were some fractionals and nationals. Yet, a pilot shortage was the last thing on the minds of Comair management. And at the same time, we were paying a $5000.00, yes that is 5 large, bonus to new hires. Hmm, seems to me when Eagle management sees a need, they find the money.

There will never be a pilot shortage to amount to the contract changes you are seeking. Management/industry will continue to shuffle work where they get the most return. No single pilot group will have enough of the flying to entertain any change. The Comair strike taught everyone that.
Even inept airline management can figure that out. Why can't you?