What's Holding You Back?
08-15-2012, 07:19 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: RJ Captain
Posts: 1,174
Originally Posted by coryk
Yea, that's a pretty low-ball attack to the senior regional lifers. It's almost as if he's calling them losers. I know a few guys with 10+ years at the regionals. A lot are just content with their position and there's nothing wrong with that. Many of them have families, mortgages, kids in college, etc etc. Why go to a major with "big jets" to fly for half of what they are currently making. On reserve. Commuting to New York! 
I think that 95% of the regional pilots should be looking to move on, but there is a lot more to life than money and flying a Boeing.
08-15-2012, 07:26 PM
#32
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Erdude32
There shouldn't be ANY Regional Captain's making over $50-60K a year...THAT'S the problem! The Lifer's who are pulling in the 120K a year, doing OE, running the simms and monopolizing the MEC's.....THEY are the problem! The Regionals were NEVER meant to be a career stop, but it's morphed into that situation. Why is there 15 and 20 yr payscales at some of the Regionals and NEVER at the Majors (except Fredex). It's because the lifers who are entrenched in your MEC's and Negotiating comittees are running the show and tossing the Jr Fo's under the bus to enrich thier career decisions. I won't even go into how many of the lifers are stuck there due to lack of a degree, credit ratings, dui's and checkride bust's. So, they get stuck at the regional and try and make it as best for them as they can...because the CAN'T/WON'T move on.
You guys want to make your industry more stable and a better QOL? Vote the Sr. guys OFF the MEC's and Neg commitees. Stop your payscales at yr 8 or 10, max vacation 2 weeks. Take no company match in 401k's. Make your Company as Cheap to run as possible. GET IN GET OUT.
For any RJ FO that's been sitting around the last 5 years waiting on an upgrade and PIC time....you are fooling yourself and screwing up your career. If you continue to wait for it, rather than making it happen you are going to miss the next hiring wave, or be at the end of it and be perpetually JR the rest of your career....which will result in a frustrating career of reserve and narrow body equipment. QUIT now! Go Expat to ANY turbine PIC job you can find. Go to India, fly turbo props...Africa, Japan, China...wherever. I'm not saying go to Emerites to sit in the right seat for 3-4 years....Go find a LEFT seat job, they are out there. Do it for a year to 18 mos and then come back here to a Major. The guys you are pulling gear for now will still be at the Regional they are now. They will still be miserable and they will still be looking for a way to throw YOU under the bus for more $$$.
You guys want to make your industry more stable and a better QOL? Vote the Sr. guys OFF the MEC's and Neg commitees. Stop your payscales at yr 8 or 10, max vacation 2 weeks. Take no company match in 401k's. Make your Company as Cheap to run as possible. GET IN GET OUT.
For any RJ FO that's been sitting around the last 5 years waiting on an upgrade and PIC time....you are fooling yourself and screwing up your career. If you continue to wait for it, rather than making it happen you are going to miss the next hiring wave, or be at the end of it and be perpetually JR the rest of your career....which will result in a frustrating career of reserve and narrow body equipment. QUIT now! Go Expat to ANY turbine PIC job you can find. Go to India, fly turbo props...Africa, Japan, China...wherever. I'm not saying go to Emerites to sit in the right seat for 3-4 years....Go find a LEFT seat job, they are out there. Do it for a year to 18 mos and then come back here to a Major. The guys you are pulling gear for now will still be at the Regional they are now. They will still be miserable and they will still be looking for a way to throw YOU under the bus for more $$$.
08-15-2012, 07:44 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 294
I didn't start this thread to start bashing each other. Maybe we should start there if we want this industry to improve? I know hundreds of senior lifers who are great people with college degrees. Would you go sit reserve hundreds of miles from home to make less at age 50? I was simply stating what I thought could work in the benefit of everyone. Also, for those of you reminding us that many airlines are sucking up regional FO's with no TPIC. I understand this, but it is at a slow enough pace to still allow staffing at undercutting regionals that offer quick upgrades. Furthermore, there are many carriers that require it and many many more that require it to be competitive. I'm not saying that my idea is a solution to the problem but until we do come up with one, we will continue to be wipsawed against each other. To this date, the only solution to the problem is to get hired by a decent carrier..... and then forget about where we came from.
08-15-2012, 07:48 PM
#34
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Let's see if I got this right. Some hypocrite who at one time sold out and paid for training to a crap outfit like Gulfstream comes on a Regional message board to call me and a lot of others like me losers because we've been at a regional for awhile without knowing our personal reasons for staying. Wow, I swear all these message boards are good for is for reading totally useless drivel written by the most immature dorks in aviation. Most of the time it's entertaining but that's it. I'm retiring from reading this bull*******. At my age my life is more than likely half over and I got better things to do than to waste my time reading crap written by self centered insecure idiots who try to make me feel bad about where I am in my life.
08-15-2012, 07:51 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by Utah
You forgot to add to that "working weekends and holidays, with 2-4 weeks less vacation every year".
I think that 95% of the regional pilots should be looking to move on, but there is a lot more to life than money and flying a Boeing.
I think that 95% of the regional pilots should be looking to move on, but there is a lot more to life than money and flying a Boeing.
You sir, get it. At my point in life, there is a lot more important than money and flying a Boeing. As a fairly new guy at a regional and approaching my mid-fifties, I have had my last interview. I am tired of being on reserve. Thank God I do live in base. I am tired of 0400 wake up calls. I understand that is all a part of seniority. I get it. But why I am going to spend however much time on the bottom of the list here and jump ship to the bottom of another list when the majors start hiring? Hopefully there will be enough younger guys and gals that can benefit from being on the bottom starting over again.
08-15-2012, 09:44 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: One with wings
Posts: 332
Wow, I just re-read my post....I totally came across as a condescending elitist pr!ck. For that I apologize, sincerely. My post was aimed at RJ FO's and got off track from what I was trying to say. My point was, and is, don't continue to sit in the right seat forever and wait for the upgrade to move on. Do something out of the box and take charge of your career. I took a substantial risk when I quit 9E in 2007 and went to GIA as a direct hire Captain. It paid off for me and 3 of my peers who did the same. We have all moved on and the gamble paid off. I was at DAL less than a year later. The rest of our new hire 9E class in 2004 is still there.
There is about to be massive movement in our industry, trust me on this when I say that you want to be at the front of this hiring wave, not the back. My peers from my '04 9E class will make it to a major eventually, if they choose. In the meantime my career earnings will easily be $1,000,000 more than theirs. It was a risk and gamble I was willing to take. It is not for everyone.
To the Sr lifers I offended, I was a dick....I apologize. I understand your reasonings for staying where you are, but don't be upset when your choices are made for you vis a vis the Major carrier tricks and whipsaw. It's how the game is played.
There is about to be massive movement in our industry, trust me on this when I say that you want to be at the front of this hiring wave, not the back. My peers from my '04 9E class will make it to a major eventually, if they choose. In the meantime my career earnings will easily be $1,000,000 more than theirs. It was a risk and gamble I was willing to take. It is not for everyone.
To the Sr lifers I offended, I was a dick....I apologize. I understand your reasonings for staying where you are, but don't be upset when your choices are made for you vis a vis the Major carrier tricks and whipsaw. It's how the game is played.
08-15-2012, 09:46 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Left seat of a Jet
Posts: 514
The powers that be have you right where he or she want you complaining about life's up and downs! Always better to be close to the ground when it all falls down as oppose to falling from the top of the building.
08-16-2012, 05:16 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,922
There's nothing wrong with staying at a regional as your final career spot. The problem is regionals are involved in a giant whipsaw game. Your regional might not be in business as long as you need it to. Examples are ACA, Comair, etc. The younger you are, the more aggressive you should be at leaving. I remember 5 years ago talking to a 45 year old Comair pilot. He had been there for 15 years. I asked him if he was ever going to move on. His answer was no due to the above reasons. 5 years later he is out of a job at 50. Now what? I hope it works out for everyone, but I think the odds at a regional are a lot lower than a legacy.
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