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- - XJT Whipsaw (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/72406-xjt-whipsaw.html)

Whipsaw? The majors must be fools! Haven't they heard? A shortage of pilots is right around the corner! :eek:

Thanks for posting the rates johnso and Jetblast.

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Originally Posted by Bozo (Post 1334383)

Nope. Your see when you fail to have language in your contract that prevents using bankrupt airline rates in an arbitration the arbitrator can use them when calculating a new rate.

Are you saying the arbitrator will come up with an "under-ride" so that ERJ pilots would get paid a lower rate when flying a larger aircraft?

A word to a senator is worth two on a forum

Some of us aren't probably gonna sit around and wait for the "Race to the Bottom" to cross the finish line. IMHO when things get too out of whack they tend to correct in one way or another. And since most pilots tend to be pro-active rather than reactive....*skips to end*

....long story short I wrote my Senator today. Told him the industry needs reform. In hind sight it was probably a funny sounding letter. It sounded like "FAA....revolving door management...race to bottom...better work rules in China...going overseas...."

Still, beats having another mid-day crash pad pity party, although those are ok with RUM.

12 HOURS OR MORE!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

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Originally Posted by Nevets (Post 1334358)

The XJT pilots on these boards may have been saying no pbs or we will vote no. The MEC has been open minded from the get go. Don't confuse the two.

Your MEC wants to reprogram smartpref so that its now prefbid. Of course they can't do that. Its apples and oranges on how the two work. It was disingenuous for the MEC to ask for that or they are just oblivious otherwise. Smartpref has proven to work with our phase 2 bidding.

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The XJT MEC did not hold the line on anything dealing with this PBS issue. In fact, they provided ideas to get past this impass that didn't have a defined outcome one way or the other. The ASA MEC shot every one of them down because it didn't make sure it had an outcome of flight line for everyone. Their ultimatum led DIRECTLY to where we are now. It has NOTHING to do with the XJT MEC.

The ASA MEC is backing a proven system that receives very favorable reviews from the pilot groups who use it. What you are asking them to do is take a concession and they are unwilling.

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If the blastmail sent out is bashing, then you guys need to get some thicker skin. It was just a letter relaying the facts. I'm sorry that the truth is equal to bashing the ASA MEC.;)

So, if you keep shouting out a lie eventually it will come true?

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One party is being reasonable and the other one isn't. Make an educated, guess, if you can, on which one it is and that will give you the answer as to why we find ourselves in the current cluster.

One party publicly mudslinging is reasonable?

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Originally Posted by Captain Tony (Post 1334052)

I can't believe I'm even reading this. For two years, you guys have thumbed your noses at every single proposal management or L-ASA made. You have bragged how you will shut it down.

I just looked at the ALPA website and it shows that the MECs have agreed on all the sections of the contract. So I don't know what you are talking about. The only thing not agreed to is the PBS system. We are in this predicament only because your MEC refuses to listen to anything other than flight line. So management thinks they found away around your MEC. This has nothing to do with the XJT MEC. Personally, I'm not even against the ASA MEC being in these negotiations with some caveats. I just want all you guys to understand that this is the direct result of your MEC and management's counter to their ultimatum. We will both end up worse for it.

Again, this could have been resolved a year ago but there were so many sticking points where your MEC took extra time to protect your interests. Now you are crying foul when the ASA MEC is protecting the interest of their pilot group. A bit hypocritical?

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Originally Posted by gtechpilot (Post 1334455)

You are saying it was disingenuous to ask Smart Pref to reprogram so that it could handle CDO's? What about providing vacation conflicts? What about providing an award analysis to ensure seniority was respected?

Smart Pref has not been fully proven - the pool of pilots and pairings your are currently running could be done by a any competent computer user and an excel spread sheet. Ramp it up to parallel a full bid for one of your bases and then we can see if it actually works.

The ASA MEC is backing a proven system that receives very favorable reviews from the pilot groups who use it. What you are asking them to do is take a concession and they are unwilling.

So, if you keep shouting out a lie eventually it will come true?

One party publicly mudslinging is reasonable?

Again, this could have been resolved a year ago but there were so many sticking points where your MEC took extra time to protect your interests. Now you are crying foul when the ASA MEC is protecting the interest of their pilot group. A bit hypocritical?

There is a huge difference between protecting interests and giving a straight ultimatum. That is downright unproffesional and childish and if you cant see that I truly do not know what to tell you.

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Originally Posted by JetBlast77 (Post 1333050)

Joe, the XJT MEC has said Flightline will not work for us, but we are willing to discuss ANY OTHER SYSTEM. ASA has said no. The company has said costs have gone up with flightline from even the line bidding days, they are willing to move forward with ANY OTHER PBS SYSTEM. ASA guys have said no. When ALPA national came down and put our MEC in one room and yours in another, they asked the ASA guys if they were willing to lose RFPs and possible growth oportunities if it meant standing their ground on flightline, their answer was YES. ALPA national reported back to the company saying there was nothing more to talk about, both sides stopped talking, the company requested we open up section 26 for new pay rates for larger aircraft. That IS what happened. What have I missed? What "record" needs to be "set straight"?

FlightLine PBS doesn't work for the L-XJT pilots because it honors seniority. The ERJ side knows they will get the short end of the stick in the seniority list integration so they are looking for any system that will socialize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetBlast77 (Post 1334478)

There is a huge difference between protecting interests and giving a straight ultimatum. That is downright unproffesional and childish and if you cant see that I truly do not know what to tell you.

The ASA MEC does not agree they have issued an ultimatum. As it stands, the ASA MEC will not drop Flightline for Smartpref. As much potential as I see in Smartpref, it is still unproven and until full base bid runs are accomplished, it is not reasonable to expect the ASA MEC to back Smartpref.

The company is playing this for all it's worth to encourage whipsaw between the groups. I am honestly more concerned with their actions than continuing to promote discord between our pilot groups.

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Originally Posted by Delayed again (Post 1334488)

That was unhelpful.

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Originally Posted by gtechpilot (Post 1334495)

Then I say GREAT! Lets do a test run with work rules in place for all schedules. If we cant get it to work case closed. Now we just have to get your MEC to agree to that! They have been unwilling to date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetBlast77 (Post 1334518)

It's even easier than that - expand the XJT test run to all line holders in a base and prove that it works. It's already in use, so it should be quick and easy to implement If the XJT MEC can prove that it works for an entire base of line bidders, I'll lead the educational campaign on the ASA side. I'd personally give up vacation low outright to do away with the multiple bid sheets and to know my schedule a full week earlier. But prove the program works first in a full scale real world environment!

BTW, the ASA MEC was willing to do parallel test runs but the company is unwilling to fund it, and Smart pref won't do it for free because the modifications to fit our work rules would have been too extensive. If this is something the XJT MEC actually wants, the burden falls on them to make it work then sell it.