Fractionals won't be in a position to change their hiring requirements much. Owner contracts state each flight will have two captain qualified pilots for each flight. Unless that changes, an ATP will be necessary for the right seat. It will be years before Netjets, Flex, or FLOPS hires another pilot. Things could change between now and then but I doubt it.

 

Are you referring to Eagle's sign-on bonus? What is SkyWest doing?

 

Eagle is going beyond just the singing bonus now...I believe they are hiring and providing pay and benefits to CFIs, and once said CFIs get to 1500 hours they are property of Eagle . SkyWest appears to be going down a similar path...http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hi...e-program.html

If anyone has a better explanation, please chime in-I'm no expert on these new developments, but rather aware these things are going on.

Clear as mud?

 

It's almost like a zookeeper throwing the last scraps of remaining food to a pack of hungry wolves: they know that a limited amount of leftovers are in his bucket, and they're fighting over whatever they can get. I'm not certain though whether this truly spells a shortage of pilot fodder for their long-term operations.

I can darned well believe though that less people are showing up at their doors. I once wanted to become an airline pilot, but now my goal is to fly freight and one day break into corporate. Most of my friends who graduated in my class share my mindset.

Hopefully it'll become much worse for Cohen and his gang....

 

It takes a very “unique” individual to enjoy a full career of flying freight (that’s excluding FedEx and UPS). It’s exciting to fly 747’s, see foreign lands, shooting bizarre approaches, never know when or where you’re going next, but it ages you at an exponential rate and the excitement fades quickly.

I would compare Great Corporate Flight Departments and Great Corporate pilot jobs to the being a football player in the NFL.

Yes, there are some killer Corporate Flight Departments, but most are average to less than average in maintenance (same lowest bidder, just in the US), QOL (most departments staff two pilots per each two pilot plane – no guaranteed time off), poor pay and the job security is 100% based on the lifespan of the individual owner or their financial wellbeing. The owner dies or loses a boatload of money, the first thing that goes are the airplanes.

The same with Corporations, a merger of a downturn in business and a great Flight Department goes away overnight – and I do mean overnight.

There are a few great flight departments but your chances of getting hired there without a lot of previous corporate experience and an internal recommendation are essentially the same as going from being a star high school football player and making it to the NFL.

The great Corporate jobs with brand new aircraft, state-or-the-art avionics, spotless hanger floors, superior maintenance, good pay and a decent QOL are extremely few and far between, and again they may easily evaporate in the blink of an eye.

It’s true, entry-level jobs aren’t great, in any way. You have to have a certain passion or love of aviation to stick it out through the lean years. You will build experience that doesn’t come from just flying to the PTS and passing a check ride. You’re sort of displaying the adage, “You don’t know what you don’t know” yet. We’ve all been there.

The good news is, if you love what you do, you are happy because you don't know how good it can be. I was on call 24/7/365 for 10 years and enjoyed the job 90% of the time. Then I got an airline job and I don't know if I could go back.

Yeah, I’ve flown with some 15,000 hour Day-VFR only Wonders that buried the yoke in their lap and couldn't understand why we hit the ground whilst in a stall (in the sim) but they are definitely the exception.

IMO, a pilot with less than 1,000 hours has no business being in a jet. Worse yet, some of those jobs have relatively quick upgrades so you end up with a jet Captain with 2,000 hours. It IS about safety and once you build your time and make the bone-headed mistakes all of us have made, you’ll realize it.

I shudder to imagine what the new generation, who have only operated in glass cockpits with FMS’s, will do when faced with a complete failure of that equipment.

There are also those entry-level to mid-range jobs flying freight in a Navajo, Beech 18 or passengers in older airliners with all “hardball” instruments, some don’t even have ground speed read outs and everything is done with pure VOR’s.

Take your time, enjoy the ride and you'll appreciate where you end up much more. The "fast-track" days may be over, but at least there are good jobs at the end of your short time-building journey.

 

IA1125, Well said-you articulate your ideas well.

 

I appreciate your optimism! But I respectfully disagree with your low time comment.. I worked myself crazy in every aspect of this industry and paid my own money to gain the time and experience I had.. I learned a lot within my flying experience.. I wasn't at 1000 when I got hired.. But I'm well above that now and have learned so much about what being a pilot is.. Yes there is the instinctual rudder skills which you only get from experience but I can honestly say a lot people lack the intra-personal CRM skills and do this job for pure Grrrrr... I'm a pilot Ego.. The decisions we all make.. Even the littlest ones affect everyone around us from the rampers and flight attendants to gate agents to passengers.. This is the huge disconnect in our generation! If you want to move something big and feel special drive a bus. This job is way too important to have for pure ego.. Just IMHO

 

Some of you just don't seem to understand the importance of instant gratification! And what do you mean I don't get a trophy for completing training?!?

 

That’s sort of my point. You’ve learned a lot, I just question whether the best place to learn is in a passenger hauling jet.

I don’t think that “instinctual rudder skills” are the most important aspect of a pilot’s development. IMO, judgment is the most valuable trait that a pilot develops over time, the best pilots continue to learn this throughout their careers.

I couldn’t agree more regarding the “working and playing well with others” part. Pilots that do this for an ego boast are in the wrong field. My theory is that the more authority or control a pilot feels they need to exert at work, the less control they probably have in their home life.

I’m surprised that you think your generation needs work in this area. If anything, I think CRM might be a little over done. The only issue I may have is a general entitlement attitude in that pilots feel they have a bit of a birth right to a good flying job without putting in the time that was at one time customary. All of the above is just my opinion...

 

Judgement is huge, but as Mr. Renslow demonstrated there are some basic skills which really need to be second nature. Things like stall recovery, determining your SA from an RMI/HSI, not cross-controlling a steep base-to-final turn, not fixating on something else while your AS bleeds off. If it's not second nature you may not do it correctly when the poop hits the blower, and the sim can't test for that because you're never really scared or startled
in the box.