Originally Posted by IA1125

who have only operated in glass cockpits with FMS’s, will do when faced with a complete failure of that equipment.

Originally Posted by IA1125

It takes a very “unique” individual to enjoy a full career of flying freight (that’s excluding FedEx and UPS). It’s exciting to fly 747’s, see foreign lands, shooting bizarre approaches, never know when or where you’re going next, but it ages you at an exponential rate and the excitement fades quickly.



I would compare Great Corporate Flight Departments and Great Corporate pilot jobs to the being a football player in the NFL.

Yes, there are some killer Corporate Flight Departments, but most are average to less than average in maintenance (same lowest bidder, just in the US), QOL (most departments staff two pilots per each two pilot plane – no guaranteed time off), poor pay and the job security is 100% based on the lifespan of the individual owner or their financial wellbeing. The owner dies or loses a boatload of money, the first thing that goes are the airplanes.

The same with Corporations, a merger of a downturn in business and a great Flight Department goes away overnight – and I do mean overnight.

There are a few great flight departments but your chances of getting hired there without a lot of previous corporate experience and an internal recommendation are essentially the same as going from being a star high school football player and making it to the NFL.

The great Corporate jobs with brand new aircraft, state-or-the-art avionics, spotless hanger floors, superior maintenance, good pay and a decent QOL are extremely few and far between, and again they may easily evaporate in the blink of an eye.



It’s true, entry-level jobs aren’t great, in any way. You have to have a certain passion or love of aviation to stick it out through the lean years. You will build experience that doesn’t come from just flying to the PTS and passing a check ride. You’re sort of displaying the adage, “You don’t know what you don’t know” yet. We’ve all been there.

The good news is, if you love what you do, you are happy because you don't know how good it can be. I was on call 24/7/365 for 10 years and enjoyed the job 90% of the time. Then I got an airline job and I don't know if I could go back.

Yeah, I’ve flown with some 15,000 hour Day-VFR only Wonders that buried the yoke in their lap and couldn't understand why we hit the ground whilst in a stall (in the sim) but they are definitely the exception.



IMO, a pilot with less than 1,000 hours has no business being in a jet. Worse yet, some of those jobs have relatively quick upgrades so you end up with a jet Captain with 2,000 hours. It IS about safety and once you build your time and make the bone-headed mistakes all of us have made, you’ll realize it.

I shudder to imagine what the new generation, who have only operated in glass cockpits with FMS’s, will do when faced with a complete failure of that equipment.

There are also those entry-level to mid-range jobs flying freight in a Navajo, Beech 18 or passengers in older airliners with all “hardball” instruments, some don’t even have ground speed read outs and everything is done with pure VOR’s.

Take your time, enjoy the ride and you'll appreciate where you end up much more. The "fast-track" days may be over, but at least there are good jobs at the end of your short time-building journey.

Originally Posted by hypoxia

I've flown with 300 hour pilots that are excellent and have wonderful potential and flown with 10000 hour pilots that are outright dangerous! Where are the evidenced based studies showing an ATP pilot enhanced safety? It was a move by congress to create an illusion that the industry is safer.... We still have folks making poor wages and commuting all night because they can't afford to live where they are domiciled! In regArds to part 91 my comments were addressed to the arrogant assumption that the 91 corporate will be a resource for regional airlines! Some of the reasons were mentioned the big one being pay! Yes it comes down to money!

Originally Posted by hypoxia

I've flown with 300 hour pilots that are excellent and have wonderful potential and flown with 10000 hour pilots that are outright dangerous! Where are the evidenced based studies showing an ATP pilot enhanced safety? It was a move by congress to create an illusion that the industry is safer.... We still have folks making poor wages and commuting all night because they can't afford to live where they are domiciled! In regArds to part 91 my comments were addressed to the arrogant assumption that the 91 corporate will be a resource for regional airlines! Some of the reasons were mentioned the big one being pay! Yes it comes down to money!

Originally Posted by hypoxia

I've flown with 300 hour pilots that are excellent and have wonderful potential and flown with 10000 hour pilots that are outright dangerous! Where are the evidenced based studies showing an ATP pilot enhanced safety? It was a move by congress to create an illusion that the industry is safer.... We still have folks making poor wages and commuting all night because they can't afford to live where they are domiciled! In regArds to part 91 my comments were addressed to the arrogant assumption that the 91 corporate will be a resource for regional airlines! Some of the reasons were mentioned the big one being pay! Yes it comes down to money!

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Great, now you are the CEO for ABC Airlines. The hiring department has just presented you with a plan that they will get approved and signed off by insurance if you approve and sign off. To accurately assess interviewees, this will take approximately 8hrs of sim time to thoroughly evaluate and see how the applicant will do in a 2-crew environment, with various scenarios, basic skills, advanced stuff, a real "gauntlet" to see how good they really are. This will require a contract with a local Flight Safety or sim provider, and the contract will cost 10 million a year, since we won't be washing out people that have very few hours, so we'll be putting lots of people through.

Does this make sense at all? Of course not. Does 1500hrs guarantee anything? Yes, more experience. It doesn't guarentee skills, but it does guarantee a higher average level and even though there are 200hr wonders, it's not cost effective to seek them out.

Originally Posted by hypoxia

I disagree. An airline would be better off ensuring a pilot was trained the right way from zero hours and provide an abinitio type experience. Just because someone logs 1500 hours in a Cessna 152 and passes an ATP check ride does not ensure this pilot is safer!! The military takes folks from zero hours and produces a safe aviator! The point is there is no evidenced based research into the congressional mandate of a 1500 hour pilot being a safer pilot! There is evidence showing military and abinitio training at least prepares the pilot with a known curriculum, documented training and not Parker pen time as suggested previously! I would rather have a 300 hour pilot that passed a rigorous program than a 1500 hour pilot that flew circles in a C152 or Parker penned their time!

Originally Posted by hypoxia

I disagree. An airline would be better off ensuring a pilot was trained the right way from zero hours and provide an abinitio type experience. Just because someone logs 1500 hours in a Cessna 152 and passes an ATP check ride does not ensure this pilot is safer!! The military takes folks from zero hours and produces a safe aviator! The point is there is no evidenced based research into the congressional mandate of a 1500 hour pilot being a safer pilot! There is evidence showing military and abinitio training at least prepares the pilot with a known curriculum, documented training and not Parker pen time as suggested previously! I would rather have a 300 hour pilot that passed a rigorous program than a 1500 hour pilot that flew circles in a C152 or Parker penned their time!

Originally Posted by hypoxia

The point is there is no evidenced based research into the congressional mandate of a 1500 hour pilot being a safer pilot!

Originally Posted by hypoxia

I disagree. An airline would be better off ensuring a pilot was trained the right way from zero hours and provide an abinitio type experience. Just because someone logs 1500 hours in a Cessna 152 and passes an ATP check ride does not ensure this pilot is safer!! The military takes folks from zero hours and produces a safe aviator! The point is there is no evidenced based research into the congressional mandate of a 1500 hour pilot being a safer pilot! There is evidence showing military and abinitio training at least prepares the pilot with a known curriculum, documented training and not Parker pen time as suggested previously! I would rather have a 300 hour pilot that passed a rigorous program than a 1500 hour pilot that flew circles in a C152 or Parker penned their time!