So everyone call in sick, right?

I knew it would come to this. The moment I saw airlines trying to cram airplanes with 100% load factors years ago, I knew the commuting model was dated. How long until there is no commuting and you have to live in base? Although it's far-fetched for airlines, it's not all that far-fetched for any other business, and you can bet the goal of airline management is to make the airlines like any other business.

Edit: I'm not sure if this rumor is solid yet, but I don't think it's out of line with the way the industry has been moving...

Eagle guys have to pay to commute to work?!

I hope this United scheme of paying to commute to work is a joke. If not, I'm lost for words...:mad:

Just think: When we get our new big planes at XJT our $2 raise will cover the round trip cost of commuting with a 20 hour pairing!!!

2 steps forward, 20 steps back! God I hate this industry!

The memo***

Dear Regional Travel Partners,

We sincerely thank all of you for your patience as we transition through the ups
and downs of our new processes and systems.

We appreciate that each of you took the time to speak to us last Friday. We are
very happy to announce that the pass travel policies, including eligible pass
riders, boarding priorities and network availability is not changing for your
co-workers or retirees. As we explained during the call, an analysis was done
and we have a (dollars)7M gap per year to break-even with regional employee
travel. We reviewed various membership opt-in fee models, but were not able
to come up with a reasonable model to cover a (dollars)7M recapture. As a
result, we will move to an all segment fee program and will be discontinuing the
Annual Membership fee program effective May 1.

Those currently on the segment fee program will have no changes, except you will
no longer have to opt in and out each year. Here is a recap for those of you
that are currently on the Annual Membership program.

%95 Employees will no longer need to opt-in or opt-out for the travel program each year
%95 All employees are considered opted-in and will only pay as they go, either pre-paid or payroll deduct, as applicable
%95 Employees will pay the same fees as a UA employee, plus the following service charges.
%95 Initially all base segment fees will be collected via payroll
deduct. We are working on the technology to pre-pay this fee upfront with the other fees. We will have an ETA on this in the 4Q13.

The new base segment fees to be in effect as of May 1:

Base Segment Charges:
Home Airline: (dollars) 0
Other UAX, United Mainline- Domestic1: (dollars) 20
United Mainline - Other International2: (dollars) 50

Service Charges are subject to change. Please refer to United's Flying
Together-Travel intranet information for details on the UA employee fees**.
1 Domestic travel: within the 48 contiguous United States, as well as Alaska
and Hawaii. Domestic travel will also include travel within the Micronesia
Islands and from Guam and/or Saipan to the Micronesia Islands.
2 International travel: will be consider all other travel, including travel
to Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean, Europe, Africa,
Asia, Guam, Micronesia and the South Pacific, to be international travel.
** Service Charges vary by distance and class of service used and are in
addition to the Base Segment Charge.

Kill me now.

This is a war against all commuters

If by paying dues you mean developing one's self personally or professionally, fine. But paying to get to work as an airline pilot is requisite dues paying? Please.

Employees should not be used as a revenue stream.

Also, pilots help other pilots, whether it is commuting or any number of things.

Little man? Tell me "Pops", how many times have you had to pay to jumpseat? Besides wasn't 20k more like 100k when adjusted for inflation?....

Paying your dues is one thing but having to pay to get to work only because you have the misfortune of flying express for that mainline is another. It has nothing to do with silver spoons and flapping scarves. I know it has been this way for Eagle and I always thought it was ass backwards. Here is a good idea, lets put obstacles in front of the people you rely on to move your own passengers. That seems reasonable.

Is this a joke? Amazing some of the things people will say when the other person isn't standing across from them.

I'm hoping I just blatantly missed the sarcasm here because if not this is one of the most arrogant, disrespectful, straight up dbag posts I've ever seen on this board.

"little man"??? Really? Get a life.

Hahahaha, that was pretty funny......

In regards to the bolded statement, do United mainline employees pay per segment to non rev? If this pay per segment scheme is just for United regional carriers, that's really crappy. "Thanks for contributing to our bottom line while working on lesser pay scales. By the way, you owe xxxx dollars for the privilege of coming to work."

But it's ok to royally screw RJ pilots flying UNITED PAX?

Sorry if someone has already answered this but, how does a FEDEX (for example) pilot pay the per leg commute fee? What about other mainline pilots? What if you have 3 pilots wanting to JS but a lot of empty seats?

It sounds like it will only affect those of us who fly UAL pax. Pretty crappy thing to do to us if its true. I guess things will get worse before they get better. (If ever)

so has anyone heard anything official?? Nothing here at XJT.

Does that mean I can non rev on my company airplane for free?

Is there an email where we can all send our concerns about this? It's completely BS!

He's just upset because he has a "little man".

Well, we'll see how Smi**** feels when he gets the fuel bill from all of his express carriers running 2 engines and APU's every chance they can....

Best thing you could ever do for me is deny me the jumpseat to get to work. I've got my commuter policy firmly in hand, so I'll just enjoy my days off. I can't drop a trip to save my life, so you will just be doing it for me!

That being said, I still don't understand the thought process of the regional pilot these days. I've been there, done that, and I would NEVER have thought of commuting to work for a regional. I simply didn't make enough money or have enough time off to make it possible. I moved 3 times with 2 regionals to make sure that I lived in base. The problem with working for a company that doesn't actually pay for seats, fuel, etc. that they fly is that you are at the mercy of the company that pays the bills. Everyone flying for a regional today knew it when they signed up. I certainly did when I was slogging around at the commuters making my $17k a year.

I'm still trying to figure out how you've decided that this is somehow the United PILOTS who are to be held responsible for the travel arrangements with their commuter partners. This is about the 4th time I've been treated to a "denial of jumpseat" threat (and sometimes actually denied the seat) by certain United Express pilots. Sorry, but this does nothing to make me feel threatened. As I mentioned above, not making it to work when I have a commuter policy in the contract is a blessing for me. Keep this in mind, however, when you are appealing for sympathy or action from the United pilot group. In the last decade my airline has shrunk literally in half. Most of my F/O's have been furloughed... many of them twice. During that time, the regionals have literally EXPLODED, flying larger and larger jets, getting hired with less time and less experience. It wasn't that long ago that you had to have several thousand hours of flying checks around before you could even THINK about applying to be a regional F/O for that $20k a year job. Some perspective has been lost over the last 10 years. Yet during all this time of watching more and more express pilots get hired with less and less time, flying more and more of my old routes, I never ONCE denied a UAX pilot the jumpseat. Never ONCE did I do anything other than offer to stow UAX pilots bags in the cockpit and welcome them on board.

It STINKS getting this charge thrown on our UAX pass travelers. I would list how many things Jeff and Glenn have done to mainline employees that STINK, but I don't have enough GB left in my data plan this month to list them all. It's a fight each and every day to push back against the crap that these guys steal from us. Would you like me to cost my pension for you for example??

Feel free to go crazy with fuel burn, denying UAL pilots the jumpseat, flying with the APU on, writing up questionable maint items, etc. etc. The beancounters at UAL are watching. And when they go to your management and say "well, your costs went up 25%. We are going to have to extract that from your contract", where do you think they will take that money from?

Taking this out on or denying a UAL pilot is just silly. This came from the bean counters not the pilots... As flightcrew we have to look out for each other because god knows management isn't.

Dear United Mainline,

Please quit checking commuting crewmembers' bags to baggage claim. That's really not cool.

I understand your point. But in the first 5 years I was at the regional, I went through 5 base closures, as well as a CA displacement, followed by a furlough. That would entail a move EVERY year that first 5 years on average. The longest I was in a base was 2 years, the shortest was 2 months in one, then 4 months in another. I made OK money as an RJ FO, enough to buy a home. So although I can't stand commuting, trying to actually progress somewhat in life, own a home, maybe have a family, it's just easier to stay in place. Or rather, it's just LESS of a pain in the a$$.

How dare you use your actual life experience to contradict someone else's vague generalization of a regional pilot.

************************************

True. I guess I could add that when starting over after the furlough would have entailed the SIXTH move to what was at the time the crappiest/least desirable base. But only for 5-6 months. Then I could hold the base that had a better (less crappy) commute. That would have made the SEVENTH move before even hitting 6 years is this career.

West Coast opening would have made EIGHT, when it closed about a year and a half after, going through base closure number SIX would have made the NINTH move. That would have been at the 8 year point.

"Commuting is a choice", B.S., often it's a choice made for you.

Really!!? Ok, hope you have a "commuter policy", for the commute going the other way = HOME. Instead of acting like an out of touch, my sh1t dont stink a$$ clown, try to show some understanding for your fellow constituents. They didnt "sign up" for this bullish/t, it was forced on them. Until your attitude changes toward the unfortunate misfortune of other pilots (especially the already beat down regional pilot) --- here's to many more years of denied drop trips :p

We used to request the jumpseat ticket at American since they charge there folks a segment fee too....but last year the blocked the jumpseat in sabre to not unlock until all seats in the back were full or a supervisor/load agent had to assign it now.

Let's look at some bases available to regional pilots: IAD, JFK, LGA, DCA, EWR, and BOS. None are places I would want to live on a junior CA salary let alone an FO's pay.

I chose my employer because I could live in base, in a nice location, and survive on $21k (in 2007). Since then, my base has closed. I could move to another base, or I could commute. Let's do the math...

Commute: $2-3k/year for a crashpad + a few hundred for antacid tablets for jumpseating, live in a city that was virtually uneffected by the recession, where I am happy

Moving: Maybe break even on the move (as this is a forced move), live a cold place where I have lived before and hated, and pay 7% in state income tax.

The income tax will more than cover the cost of a crashpad, so financially, it is a wash. I'll lose a couple days per month to traveling, but I won't need an engine heater in my car nine months of the year.

Lighten up Francis.

There is always this little note at the bottom of the memo.

** Service Charges vary by distance and class of service used and are in
addition to the Base Segment Charge.

So would a coast to coast commute cost more that a shorter commute segment? Think of all the fun we have had getting refunds from united now, let the fun begin with this idea.

This, among other reasons, is why I stopped commuting on United.

What was the seven million dollar shortfall? This is space available travel. They weren't losing revenue. Did some dork figure it costs 20 bucks in fuel to move me or my family?

I don't know if you have compared the cost of living in places like ORD, EWR, IAD, DEN, and SFO with other places around the country. But if you do that it doesn't take a Harvard MBA to figure out why people would commute over living in base. My house payment will get me a decent one bedroom apartment in most of these places. Not to mention the constant opening and closing of bases. It just isn't affordable. I'd love to live in base if I was paid enough to live there, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. This will just add to the cost of this profession, and cause more people to decide to move to other professions for economical reasons, particularly FAs. Maybe when your A320 is flying around half empty because of a decrease in regional feed due to a lack of crews, you'll start to understand. If you think I'm kidding, go look around at flight schools around the country. This profession is rapidly becoming economically unsustainable for the average person and is probably already there. As much as I love this business, if I were starting right now there is no way I would do it because of the numbers. To quote Smisek's memo when you add up a huge student loan payment, a crashpad, and now as much as $320 a month in fees to commute to work it creates a gap, and there is not a reasonable model for recapture. When I was an FA, a policy like this likely would have driven me out of the business, it was that close of a break even operation for me financially. We are about to enter a very interesting time in this business where actions like this are driving potential employees away, and airlines will have to start competing for employees, rather than relying on having 10 or 15 applicants for every job. This will begin with the regionals at first, but will eventually work its way up to the mainlines as well.

What's really funny is the pass priviliges have been used in the past to justify low wages at airlines........

Delta Airlines would call this "enhanced travel benefits"

By who? Travel benefits aren't part of any regional jcba and if they were it wouldn't matter as the company has no control over it. I laugh when pinnacle people think they are gonna get better benefits like comair had since we are now owned by delta. Ain't gonna happen. Jumpseat or bust oh well.

Travel benefits are not part of compensation.

You gotta remember that the bean counters coming up with these charges are not crew members. They've never commuted. They sit in a cube. They only look at non-rev bennies as free loading employees wanting to go on a mini-vacation to Vegas or Hawaii to sit on the beach. Commuting crew members is the last thing on their mind. They think we're overprivilaged anyways because we can jumpseat and live a glamorous lifestyle flying to Des Moines. Welcome to the suck! (Again)

Everyone is panicing and making threats. One memo from an unknown source to an unknown recipient has been posted. Let's take a deep breath until we get something official. Then we go to war.

And to the disingenuous majority who think jumpseat/non rev wars don't work, Ask an ASA pilot why we're the only DCI carrier that gets full priority on our own metal. I suspect a lot of DAL pilots complained to their chief pilots about not being able to get to or home from work in late 2007 when DAL last threatened to "enhance" our non rev "benefits".

Inside scoop at SKW is that this is for real.