Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387140)

Best thing you could ever do for me is deny me the jumpseat to get to work. I've got my commuter policy firmly in hand, so I'll just enjoy my days off. I can't drop a trip to save my life, so you will just be doing it for me!

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387140)

Best thing you could ever do for me is deny me the jumpseat to get to work. I've got my commuter policy firmly in hand, so I'll just enjoy my days off. I can't drop a trip to save my life, so you will just be doing it for me!

That being said, I still don't understand the thought process of the regional pilot these days. I've been there, done that, and I would NEVER have thought of commuting to work for a regional. I simply didn't make enough money or have enough time off to make it possible. I moved 3 times with 2 regionals to make sure that I lived in base. The problem with working for a company that doesn't actually pay for seats, fuel, etc. that they fly is that you are at the mercy of the company that pays the bills. Everyone flying for a regional today knew it when they signed up. I certainly did when I was slogging around at the commuters making my $17k a year.

I'm still trying to figure out how you've decided that this is somehow the United PILOTS who are to be held responsible for the travel arrangements with their commuter partners. This is about the 4th time I've been treated to a "denial of jumpseat" threat (and sometimes actually denied the seat) by certain United Express pilots. Sorry, but this does nothing to make me feel threatened. As I mentioned above, not making it to work when I have a commuter policy in the contract is a blessing for me. Keep this in mind, however, when you are appealing for sympathy or action from the United pilot group. In the last decade my airline has shrunk literally in half. Most of my F/O's have been furloughed... many of them twice. During that time, the regionals have literally EXPLODED, flying larger and larger jets, getting hired with less time and less experience. It wasn't that long ago that you had to have several thousand hours of flying checks around before you could even THINK about applying to be a regional F/O for that $20k a year job. Some perspective has been lost over the last 10 years. Yet during all this time of watching more and more express pilots get hired with less and less time, flying more and more of my old routes, I never ONCE denied a UAX pilot the jumpseat. Never ONCE did I do anything other than offer to stow UAX pilots bags in the cockpit and welcome them on board.

It STINKS getting this charge thrown on our UAX pass travelers. I would list how many things Jeff and Glenn have done to mainline employees that STINK, but I don't have enough GB left in my data plan this month to list them all. It's a fight each and every day to push back against the crap that these guys steal from us. Would you like me to cost my pension for you for example??

Feel free to go crazy with fuel burn, denying UAL pilots the jumpseat, flying with the APU on, writing up questionable maint items, etc. etc. The beancounters at UAL are watching. And when they go to your management and say "well, your costs went up 25%. We are going to have to extract that from your contract", where do you think they will take that money from?

Originally Posted by Captain Tony (Post 1387389)

Everyone is panicing and making threats. One memo from an unknown source to an unknown recipient has been posted. Let's take a deep breath until we get something official. Then we go to war.

And to the disingenuous majority who think jumpseat/non rev wars don't work, Ask an ASA pilot why we're the only DCI carrier that gets full priority on our own metal. I suspect a lot of DAL pilots complained to their chief pilots about not being able to get to or home from work in late 2007 when DAL last threatened to "enhance" our non rev "benefits".

Originally Posted by atdhockey (Post 1387413)

It's not my fault you voted in a crap contract that I had nothing to do with to allow the "practice jets" to steal your routes. Look we all made choices and in high school when you voted in that craptastic CBA that gave scope away I knew then it was bad. Oh but you got your pay increase at the expense of other pilots being furloughed. Don't come on here and give us your story of how you used to walk up hill in the snow both ways. I have to live in the mess your generation has put me in both in the airline world and outside of it. So thank you for this. Don't give me your sob story. I don't feel bad for you. I would never deny a jumpseat to anyone it should be a something we can use as a privilege for all the hard work each and everyone of us has put into this job along with the crap. The idea in mind in denying is that your okay with this when you shouldn't be. I'm so tired of ALPA and mainline pilots that just let crap go. "Well it doesn't affect me so why do I care" same attitude you guys have had for years. You have a a position in which your pilot group as a whole can put pressure on the company. More than all UX carriers can. Oh wait are we all nearly in the same super union that's supposed to be the best for us?

Originally Posted by yeah sure (Post 1387432)

Do I understand this correctly? Since I fly a United plane I have to pay...but a jumpseater from Delta or some other carrier doesn't?

Originally Posted by yeah sure (Post 1387432)

Do I understand this correctly? Since I fly a United plane I have to pay...but a jumpseater from Delta or some other carrier doesn't?

Originally Posted by yeah sure (Post 1387432)

Do I understand this correctly? Since I fly a United plane I have to pay...but a jumpseater from Delta or some other carrier doesn't?

Originally Posted by Ultralight (Post 1387449)

It's clear that the people who make these decisions are short sighted and do not consider the ripple effects of such policies.

Originally Posted by FlyingKat (Post 1387286)

I don't know if you have compared the cost of living in places like ORD, EWR, IAD, DEN, and SFO with other places around the country. But if you do that it doesn't take a Harvard MBA to figure out why people would commute over living in base. My house payment will get me a decent one bedroom apartment in most of these places. Not to mention the constant opening and closing of bases. It just isn't affordable. I'd love to live in base if I was paid enough to live there, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. This will just add to the cost of this profession, and cause more people to decide to move to other professions for economical reasons, particularly FAs. Maybe when your A320 is flying around half empty because of a decrease in regional feed due to a lack of crews, you'll start to understand. If you think I'm kidding, go look around at flight schools around the country. This profession is rapidly becoming economically unsustainable for the average person and is probably already there. As much as I love this business, if I were starting right now there is no way I would do it because of the numbers. To quote Smisek's memo when you add up a huge student loan payment, a crashpad, and now as much as $320 a month in fees to commute to work it creates a gap, and there is not a reasonable model for recapture. When I was an FA, a policy like this likely would have driven me out of the business, it was that close of a break even operation for me financially. We are about to enter a very interesting time in this business where actions like this are driving potential employees away, and airlines will have to start competing for employees, rather than relying on having 10 or 15 applicants for every job. This will begin with the regionals at first, but will eventually work its way up to the mainlines as well.

Originally Posted by Captain Tony (Post 1387409)

This is precisely why jumpseat wars DO work. The pilot isn't affected since he has a commuter clause. The company pays big.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387461)

But to come on here and threaten the United PILOTS (who had nothing to do with any of this) that you are going to deny them the jumpseat ON A ROUTE THAT YOU TOOK OVER FROM THEM is going to be met with little empathy.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387465)

Now that I've written it... I would never do that. I don't take out my frustrations on poor management decisions on pilots. It's unprofessional.

Originally Posted by Lab Rat (Post 1387456)

Or they know most will still pay to non-rev. By the way, isn't the use of the jumpseat/non-rev a privilege or are there entitlements written into your CBA's? Pardon my ignorance, but I have always lived in domicile and never had to deal with these issues - thankfully!

Originally Posted by atdhockey (Post 1387413)

It's not my fault you voted in a crap contract that I had nothing to do with to allow the "practice jets" to steal your routes. Look we all made choices and in high school when you voted in that craptastic CBA that gave scope away I knew then it was bad. Oh but you got your pay increase at the expense of other pilots being furloughed. Don't come on here and give us your story of how you used to walk up hill in the snow both ways. I have to live in the mess your generation has put me in both in the airline world and outside of it. So thank you for this. Don't give me your sob story. I don't feel bad for you. I would never deny a jumpseat to anyone it should be a something we can use as a privilege for all the hard work each and everyone of us has put into this job along with the crap. The idea in mind in denying is that your okay with this when you shouldn't be. I'm so tired of ALPA and mainline pilots that just let crap go. "Well it doesn't affect me so why do I care" same attitude you guys have had for years. You have a a position in which your pilot group as a whole can put pressure on the company. More than all UX carriers can. Oh wait are we all nearly in the same super union that's supposed to be the best for us?

Originally Posted by atdhockey (Post 1387413)

Look we all made choices and in high school when you voted in that craptastic CBA that gave scope away I knew then it was bad. Oh but you got your pay increase at the expense of other pilots being furloughed. Don't come on here and give us your story of how you used to walk up hill in the snow both ways. I have to live in the mess your generation has put me in both in the airline world and outside of it. So thank you for this. Don't give me your sob story.

Originally Posted by atdhockey (Post 1387424)

Yeah to one day be in a position to correct these mistakes. I jumpseat everywhere so it's not a big problem to me but I still care about my friends who it does affect. I don't have the mindset of well it doesn't affect me so why should I care. That's what got us all here. It has to stop. We will see what the good ole boys at ALPA plan about this. Yes I know it's not in anyone's contract about this but they can put pressure against UAL. Since they represent both sides of the fence.

Originally Posted by Ultralight (Post 1387469)

Non-rev to Cancun on your weekend off is a privilege. Paying to commute to your new domicile, becuase your original domicile was closed by your company is not a privilege in my opinion.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387476)

If your company closes your domicile, do they pay for your move? That should be a BASIC in everyone's contract.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387470)

Not asking you to feel sorry for me. I'm telling you that regional pilots today have had it easier than at any time in the history of aviation. Name me another one and I'll shut up. It's a fact. Deal with it.

I'm not the one on here throwing the threats.

United Pilots are not here to fight your battles for you. You are not even employees of United Airlines. We are pretty full up fighting our OWN battles in case you didn't notice. What makes you think we are in a position to change this policy??????? That's YOUR MANAGEMENTS job. They negotiate the pass travel policy! Go talk to them! UAX flies more than 50% of our domestic passengers. I have no idea how many of you there are out there, but I wouldn't be surprised if you collectively outnumber us at this point. So how come YOU don't do anything about it?

Your recollection of the history of our contract is inaccurate, so I won't bother to go down that path with, but I find it ironic that in the same post you acknowledge that we were powerless against our management team to fix the inadequacies of our contract when it comes to pay, retirement, scope etc. but now think that miraculously we have some pull with management over fixing a travel policy gaff for employees of A DIFFERENT COMPANY.

Originally Posted by Diver Driver (Post 1387444)

You don't pay to jumpseat, just to non rev.

Apparently mainline employees don't have to pay, just UAX regional partners. I jumpsat on ExpressJet the other day, and none of those guys had heard about it. Said something about it being in their CBA?...

Anyway, it's official at CommutAir as of last Friday to begin May 1. I feel bad for our FA's, many of whom commute and don't have jumpseat agreements with many carriers, including mainline United.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387476)

I'm asking this because I don't know.

If your company closes your domicile, do they pay for your move? That should be a BASIC in everyone's contract.

Originally Posted by block30 (Post 1387480)

I thought you said the race to the bottom was getting worse? You chastise regional pilots for taking jobs that mainline pilots voted away. You chastise regional pilots for being able to own a home now. You chastise regional pilots for getting paid a bonus to fly for a regional versus back in your time when you *paid the regional?*

What? :confused:

I love listening to everyone say "You didn't take a stand!!" when their own group did not.

Originally Posted by xjtguy (Post 1387466)

I agree. Making the statement that one will deny a JS'er because they feel the JS'er is PERSONALLY responsible for their plight is the act of a completely ignorant, infantile, and unprofessional individual. But keep in mind, it's just interwebz/message board posting. Or "internet tough guy" talk.

Also keep this in mind, I can't tell you how many times during the BK's I'd hear or read a mainline pilot say how their going to deny regional pilots the jumpseat, that'll teach em!!!!!! You know, because they're "taking their jobs". Or to a lesser degree, using the jumpseat as lecture pulpit to and tell the regional pilot how they are personally responsible for the plight of the mainline pilot's disposition. Been there, done that, lot's of times. Sitting on the JS, listening to the CA or FO drone on and on about how the scope they gave away is now screwing them and I'm personally responsible.

You know, the act of a completely ignorant, infantile, and unprofessional individual. Surprisingly, it's NOT just a trait of one segment of this career.



I'm GLAD you fall into that category of being professional. But there's more than a few who aren't. If you've ever done JS committee work you'll know what I mean. And YES, it goes both ways.

Just curious, you bid off the 76 or did you get displaced off?

Originally Posted by MoarAlpha (Post 1387484)

They certainly won't pay for the house you can't sell so what's the point? Ugh...

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387495)

Got bumped off the 767 awhile ago, sadly. I really enjoyed my time on that fleet, and would have stayed for most of the rest of my career if I could have as my body doesn't enjoy the ultra long-haul. I've had my bid in to get back to the 757/767 since the day I got bumped off, but UAL has begun parking the 757's more aggressively so it looks like I may never see it again. Too bad, as it was the best airplane I've ever had the privilege of flying.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387481)

I don't know the in's and out's of XJET's contract, but I can't imagine that their CBA would exempt them, as they don't have a contract with the body that controls the policy, i.e.: UAL. Unless XJET's management is going to pay the difference or can somehow convince United to exempt them.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387500)

Understood. =(

I thought I was being smart because I never bought a house while I was at a regional because I knew that there was just no stability in my job there. So I waited until I'd been at a major for awhile and upgraded to Captain. Finally closed on my house July 2001. How's THAT for timing. =( Lost it about a year later when I could no longer make the payments.

Best of luck to all of you guys. Sincerely. This new policy BLOWS.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387461)

Why do you think I don't understand the way this works? If you read my post you will see that I've been there, done that. You have a HOUSE PAYMENT?? When I was flying for my first regional I shared a one bedroom apartment with 3 other pilots. One of whom had a young son. At my second regional, I graduated to a 2 bedroom apartment which I shared with another pilot. And yes, it was a high cost area. That was just the way it was. You couldn't DREAM of buying a house while working at a regional. And you CERTAINLY couldn't dream of affording a crash pad AND a house.

If you've been hired at a regional in the past 10 years, you should do a quick search back into history and take a look at what it was like before that. Regionals are paying a SIGNING BONUS??? Man... back in the early 90's they wanted you to PAY THEM to come work for their crappy wages and work rules.

I have been saying for the past 2 decades that the increasing race to the bottom will eventually have an effect on the ability to fill the cockpit seats. So far it hasn't happened, but hopefully it will soon so that the working conditions in this business will turn around a bit.

I definitely am sorry that the costs of commuting are going up, and that once again Jeff is squeezing the employee turnip. But to come on here and threaten the United PILOTS (who had nothing to do with any of this) that you are going to deny them the jumpseat ON A ROUTE THAT YOU TOOK OVER FROM THEM is going to be met with little empathy.

Originally Posted by M20EPilot (Post 1387510)

So dumb question, but.. Does this apply to jumpseating? As in walking up to the gate an hour prior and listing as an OMC? This is what I do to commute on United (cannot list using id90 when I am commuting).

Originally Posted by Slim11 (Post 1387415)

Simple fact...airlines don't like commuting crew members.

This method, while not prohibiting the practice of commuting, is an effort to force crew members to relocate, at their own expense, to their domicile.

Originally Posted by Captain Tony (Post 1387389)

Everyone is panicing and making threats. One memo from an unknown source to an unknown recipient has been posted. Let's take a deep breath until we get something official. Then we go to war.

And to the disingenuous majority who think jumpseat/non rev wars don't work, Ask an ASA pilot why we're the only DCI carrier that gets full priority on our own metal. I suspect a lot of DAL pilots complained to their chief pilots about not being able to get to or home from work in late 2007 when DAL last threatened to "enhance" our non rev "benefits".

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 1387470)

Not asking you to feel sorry for me. I'm telling you that regional pilots today have had it easier than at any time in the history of aviation. Name me another one and I'll shut up.