U.S. airlines to lay off thousands
02-26-2014 | 03:39 PM
#41
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,543
Likes: 0
From: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
We are seeing the influx of military pilots right now...that IS happening, not a might happen someday thing. Many are cutting before their 20, and many are bailing as soon as their contract is up once they have crossed the 20 year mark....no re-upping and waiting to jump into the civilian world. Those days are done. (I'm honestly just saying, not smarting you off.)
02-26-2014 | 03:39 PM
#42
Banned
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,655
Likes: 0
From: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
How much will foreign contract work if say one of the legacies goes bk for good? The reason contract work pays more is because it has too compete for labor. How bout 2020 with 12,000 legacy pilots dumped on the economy and other countries eventually train their own pilots won't be much of a contract job market then. By definition contract work is temporary.
02-26-2014 | 03:42 PM
#43
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
Hiring has just begun... and there is an obscene amount of retirements in the next 10 years. The regionals can't fill classes, hence the desperation moves lately by them to put one last breath in the model. That has failed (much to your shortsighted chagrin), so I think you'll start seeing some improvements and at the very least increased mainline capacity and siphoning jobs off of the regionals. That is already happening in the DL system. More high paying jobs and less low paying jobs are good things.
02-26-2014 | 03:44 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 853
Likes: 0
How much will foreign contract work if say one of the legacies goes bk for good? The reason contract work pays more is because it has too compete for labor. How bout 2020 with 12,000 legacy pilots dumped on the economy and other countries eventually train their own pilots won't be much of a contract job market then. By definition contract work is temporary.
02-26-2014 | 03:49 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 853
Likes: 0
I have no doubt that your friend is a sharp guy, you have be to get command at ek. However, the " no doubt he'd be at a top tier carrier" thing is the exact carrot a lot of us are sick of hearing. Many very sharp guys right here in the us that can't get a call, and only being threatened with shut down and told they're overpaid.
02-26-2014 | 03:54 PM
#46
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
Clamp,
You gotta throw the tax-free and the housing in there in the mix too, at least just for procedure's sake in order to come close to an apples-apples comparison.
For ease of calculation, just see how long it would take for a DL FO to make $132,000 after taxes. I used guarantee for my numbers, but you get my point.
This is not a jab at DL, didn't mean to strike a nerve there. Just grab them as an example.
I see your angle about trying to look at the big picture, the problem is that management and ALPA have failed to look after lots of regional pilot groups in terms of protecting their income on behalf of the mainline carriers they also represent without shame. I will not fault a pilot who pursues a flying job in the ME chasing money, after the same Union who cries "faul" at foreign carriers failed miserably at protecting this pilots' income, seniority and QOL through acquisitions, mergers, concessionary contracts, endorsements from big wigs to pilot groups to take concessions, the list goes on.
The moment ALPA stops representing mainline carriers as well as the regional feeds of said airline, then some may start listening to what they have to say...
You gotta throw the tax-free and the housing in there in the mix too, at least just for procedure's sake in order to come close to an apples-apples comparison.
For ease of calculation, just see how long it would take for a DL FO to make $132,000 after taxes. I used guarantee for my numbers, but you get my point.
This is not a jab at DL, didn't mean to strike a nerve there. Just grab them as an example.
I see your angle about trying to look at the big picture, the problem is that management and ALPA have failed to look after lots of regional pilot groups in terms of protecting their income on behalf of the mainline carriers they also represent without shame. I will not fault a pilot who pursues a flying job in the ME chasing money, after the same Union who cries "faul" at foreign carriers failed miserably at protecting this pilots' income, seniority and QOL through acquisitions, mergers, concessionary contracts, endorsements from big wigs to pilot groups to take concessions, the list goes on.
The moment ALPA stops representing mainline carriers as well as the regional feeds of said airline, then some may start listening to what they have to say...
Your logic is fine, I just don't agree with your conclusion in regard to following ALPA recommendation on NAI. This is a bad precedent that they are setting and something that affects all of you at the regionals looking to move on to higher paying jobs.
02-26-2014 | 03:55 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
The hypocrisy with ALPA and mainline is amazing. When they start supporting us, I'll return the favor. There is zero professional curtesy in this industry and as far as I'm concerned they've created this problem and now they are trying to combat it. First they hate southwest, then the regionals, followed by jet blue, Virginia America and now all the foreign guys..
Who else can we blame? If there was a real union, the unity and professionalism wouldn't come into question every other day.
Who else can we blame? If there was a real union, the unity and professionalism wouldn't come into question every other day.
02-26-2014 | 03:56 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 0
Hiring has just begun... and there is an obscene amount of retirements in the next 10 years. The regionals can't fill classes, hence the desperation moves lately by them to put one last breath in the model. That has failed (much to your shortsighted chagrin), so I think you'll start seeing some improvements and at the very least increased mainline capacity and siphoning jobs off of the regionals. That is already happening in the DL system. More high paying jobs and less low paying jobs are good things.
02-26-2014 | 04:04 PM
#49
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
I think most of you are confusing high-paying Middle East carriers with low-cost European carriers. They are two completely different ways of doing business. And they treat their pilots/employees in completely different ways.
Norwegian is trying to bring the low-cost (think Ryanair) model to transatlantic flying. With EI registered airplanes, and contract pilots.
Norwegian is trying to bring the low-cost (think Ryanair) model to transatlantic flying. With EI registered airplanes, and contract pilots.
02-26-2014 | 04:05 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
The hypocrisy with ALPA and mainline is amazing. When they start supporting us, I'll return the favor. There is zero professional curtesy in this industry and as far as I'm concerned they've created this problem and now they are trying to combat it. First they hate southwest, then the regionals, followed by jet blue, Virginia America and now all the foreign guys..
Who else can we blame? If there was a real union, the unity and professionalism wouldn't come into question every other day.
Who else can we blame? If there was a real union, the unity and professionalism wouldn't come into question every other day.
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