Majors To Absorb Regionals In The Future?
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,277
Why would they be forced back to FO? They could choose to stay in status and base on the rj. I cannot imagine many senior pilots would bid down to the rj and force these captains to an FO position of any kind on a different bird and even if they did- there would be plenty of junior rj captains leaving to the right seat of the bigger planes which would practically level the bid.
I think people are stuck in a "flow" mentality here. The hypothetical proposition I am offering for debate in this thread is neither a flow nor a traditional staple to the bottom of a list- it is folding in the entire carrier (pilots, fleets, bases and lines etc.) to the major airlines ranks, generally keeping the operation intact.
I think people are stuck in a "flow" mentality here. The hypothetical proposition I am offering for debate in this thread is neither a flow nor a traditional staple to the bottom of a list- it is folding in the entire carrier (pilots, fleets, bases and lines etc.) to the major airlines ranks, generally keeping the operation intact.
If a major wants to control all flying it would be cheaper and with dramatically fewer ancillary issues to simply stop renewing feed contracts and ad the flying to the mainline. There is no need for the night mare ever merger seems to become.
#22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navmode
What I believe will happen:
Some mainline carrier will find their most profitable contract carrier, buy them out, and staple everyone to the bottom of the seniority list. No more scope to worry about limiting seat capacity, and they would be able to take advantage of the cheaper regional flying at cost. It's basically a flow without the shenanigans and technical red tape.
I can see many people at X carrier accepting a status quo contract renewal if they had a mainline seniority number, and were just waiting to move into a 737/a320 or what have you at normal mainline pay rates. Pilots would come out of the woodwork for an opportunity like that, and every class would be full. The first mainline carrier to do such a thing would not only have the pick of the litter, but would set the tone for the way the industry will look for the foreseeable future.
Past history shows the purchased carrier would not agree to a staple. Most managements are also unlikely to give up all control of the hiring process.
Originally Posted by Navmode
What I believe will happen:
Some mainline carrier will find their most profitable contract carrier, buy them out, and staple everyone to the bottom of the seniority list. No more scope to worry about limiting seat capacity, and they would be able to take advantage of the cheaper regional flying at cost. It's basically a flow without the shenanigans and technical red tape.
I can see many people at X carrier accepting a status quo contract renewal if they had a mainline seniority number, and were just waiting to move into a 737/a320 or what have you at normal mainline pay rates. Pilots would come out of the woodwork for an opportunity like that, and every class would be full. The first mainline carrier to do such a thing would not only have the pick of the litter, but would set the tone for the way the industry will look for the foreseeable future.
Past history shows the purchased carrier would not agree to a staple. Most managements are also unlikely to give up all control of the hiring process.
#23
doin time
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: RJ Left
Posts: 435
1. The trend has been to spin off regional partners.
2. An independent publicly owned regional would have to agree to be bought out or be taken over under hostility.
3. A privately owned regional would have to see gold at the end of the rainbow to give up it's cash cow.
4. Unionized pilots would pitch a fit. Who knows what the other labour groups would say.
5. I really can't see upper mgmt at these regionals giving up their gigs.
6. Stranger things have happened..
2. An independent publicly owned regional would have to agree to be bought out or be taken over under hostility.
3. A privately owned regional would have to see gold at the end of the rainbow to give up it's cash cow.
4. Unionized pilots would pitch a fit. Who knows what the other labour groups would say.
5. I really can't see upper mgmt at these regionals giving up their gigs.
6. Stranger things have happened..
#24
1. The trend has been to spin off regional partners.
2. An independent publicly owned regional would have to agree to be bought out or be taken over under hostility.
3. A privately owned regional would have to see gold at the end of the rainbow to give up it's cash cow.
4. Unionized pilots would pitch a fit. Who knows what the other labour groups would say.
5. I really can't see upper mgmt at these regionals giving up their gigs.
6. Stranger things have happened..
2. An independent publicly owned regional would have to agree to be bought out or be taken over under hostility.
3. A privately owned regional would have to see gold at the end of the rainbow to give up it's cash cow.
4. Unionized pilots would pitch a fit. Who knows what the other labour groups would say.
5. I really can't see upper mgmt at these regionals giving up their gigs.
6. Stranger things have happened..
There could be some backlash from the unions as you say , but let's think why... Would union pilots handed a seniority number, accruing seniority, longevity and mainline benefits complain?
#25
Why can't they both keep their cheap outsourced flying and give everyone seniority numbers. They would have plenty of applicants at the door that would gladly fly RJ's at low rates keeping the feed staffed and all these guys can bid to fly the larger aircrafts when their seniority can hold it...
How else would mainlines hold any pilots at these express units with the amount of movement that could be around the corner?
How else would mainlines hold any pilots at these express units with the amount of movement that could be around the corner?
#26
doin time
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: RJ Left
Posts: 435
Would unions complain? Maybe, maybe not. The pilot group would have to vote on the issue.
We're starting to see a trend of pilots flocking to regionals with descent work rules. If the wholly owned regional, which only four exist, have a sub standard contract, they'll have a hard time attracting quality pilots anyway.
PSA just voted in a low quality contract. Endeavor has a low quality contract. Envoy will more than likely shrink. Piedmont is kinda a toss up at the moment. Those being the only wholly owned, it may be hard to sell to the savvy new hire.
We're starting to see a trend of pilots flocking to regionals with descent work rules. If the wholly owned regional, which only four exist, have a sub standard contract, they'll have a hard time attracting quality pilots anyway.
PSA just voted in a low quality contract. Endeavor has a low quality contract. Envoy will more than likely shrink. Piedmont is kinda a toss up at the moment. Those being the only wholly owned, it may be hard to sell to the savvy new hire.
#27
Senior captains at the regionals would fight that as hard as they possibly could. There would probably also be lawsuits involved. Can you imagine a bunch of 30 year RJ captains who live in base and fly nothing but high credit locals and CDOs being stapled to the bottom of a major list, going back to FO and being forced to commute to reserve in NYC?
There are quite a few people at most regionals who have no plans to leave the regionals and would pitch a fit over any kind of absorption that they wouldn't have the right to pass up.
There are quite a few people at most regionals who have no plans to leave the regionals and would pitch a fit over any kind of absorption that they wouldn't have the right to pass up.
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,204
This is coming soon, by the end of the year. The big three need pilots for their brand. There is a need currently but in 3-4 years without a steady source of pilots these airlines will be in a world of hurt. The first airline to innovate and make a move will be way ahead of the game. We are all focused on the shorterm, this is not a short term move, it is a move to capture the required manpower over the next 5 years and bring in the next generation of pilots. The smart airlines looking into the future are already actively working on this and recruiting from the flight schools trying to secure pilots for their brand. Regionals will eventually be the entry job for the mainline brands. This will allow a select few regionals to properly staff and provide for a more defined career path which will allow for more financing options for potential pilot candidates.
#29
The legacy carriers will never have a shortage of applicants. There will always be plenty of well connected regional pilots, and retiring military pilots to fill those spots.
But if they do, they will simply go to ab-initio training like all the other major carriers of the world. Most current regional pilots need to start accepting that they will never get that coveted mainline job.
#30
I agree that the majors will likely never face a real shortage, but their express feed will and they will have to find a way to defend it.
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