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Old 07-29-2014 | 08:12 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by FlyingKat
All that worked well until the new ATP rules came out. Now to get hired under the new ATP rules, you MUST have an Professional Pilot Degree or be a graduate of a military flying program. It is a completely new world under this rule. The days of going to your FBO, building time and getting hired are over, unfortunately. There are going to be two ways to get hired in the future. Go through a military program or a college program. And the cheapest Professional Pilot Degrees in FAA approved programs are $150K.

Personally I spent $30K to get into this profession. If I were looking at this now there is no way I would spend 150K for it. The return just doesn't justify the investment.

Excellent! Now your skills are more valuable. You are worth more than others who do not have your skill set.

But from what I understand (admittedly little since I have had an ATP since 2000) is that if one meets the hour requirements, a company (if they choose) can provide the sim time and written test to finish up the ATP. Again, I may be wrong. But the great thing is those of us who have an ATP are more valuable than those who do not.

The entitlement folks will cry fowl. But too bad. There was a time when a Comm was enough to fly an airliner. The rules are the rules: learn them, live by them, find the cracks, and move on.

And don't for a minute think that schools won't figure out a way for a guy who has 2000 hours and 135 time to get an ATP (or at least get everything that the regionals won't provide).

Regionals will shrink. How much depends on the passengers. If Armpit, Arkansas citizens are willing to pay $1.50 an hour more (on a 50 pax plane) the crew will split about $60/hour (40 pax * 1.50). Otherwise, Armpit won't have air service. If they aren't willing to pay, they will cry, and service goes away. Too bad, so sad, tough *******, next case.

The companies that WILL suffer are the 135 operators that require an ATP (those that have an endorsement eg. CAMTS or the like) to fly a plane that does not require a type rating. Attracting an ATP will get more expensive. Unintended consequence: In the case of CAMTS (air ambulance) companies, unless insurance, medicare, medicade, payments go up, either patients will pay more, or they won't fly.

Last edited by FlyJSH; 07-29-2014 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 07-29-2014 | 08:28 PM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by FlyingKat
All that worked well until the new ATP rules came out. Now to get hired under the new ATP rules, you MUST have an Professional Pilot Degree or be a graduate of a military flying program. It is a completely new world under this rule. The days of going to your FBO, building time and getting hired are over, unfortunately. There are going to be two ways to get hired in the future. Go through a military program or a college program. And the cheapest Professional Pilot Degrees in FAA approved programs are $150K.

Personally I spent $30K to get into this profession. If I were looking at this now there is no way I would spend 150K for it. The return just doesn't justify the investment.

Aren't most regionals just requiring the ATP written be completed? If a person had the hours from the local FBO and has completed the written they would still qualify to be hired AFAIK.

Last edited by mosteam3985; 07-29-2014 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Sorry JSH, just saw that you wrote the same thing. Didn't mean to sound redundant. Disregard.
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Old 07-29-2014 | 08:40 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by FlyingKat
All that worked well until the new ATP rules came out. Now to get hired under the new ATP rules, you MUST have an Professional Pilot Degree or be a graduate of a military flying program. It is a completely new world under this rule. The days of going to your FBO, building time and getting hired are over, unfortunately. There are going to be two ways to get hired in the future. Go through a military program or a college program. And the cheapest Professional Pilot Degrees in FAA approved programs are $150K.

Personally I spent $30K to get into this profession. If I were looking at this now there is no way I would spend 150K for it. The return just doesn't justify the investment.
Umm wrong? You can get hired with no degree and 1500TT. Or with a degree in something else and 1500TT. The degree thing allows one to get hired with 1000TT. 500 hrs isn't a big deal IMO and I'd probably stick it out to avoid riddle.
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Old 07-29-2014 | 08:42 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by FlyingKat
All that worked well until the new ATP rules came out. Now to get hired under the new ATP rules, you MUST have an Professional Pilot Degree or be a graduate of a military flying program. It is a completely new world under this rule. The days of going to your FBO, building time and getting hired are over, unfortunately. There are going to be two ways to get hired in the future. Go through a military program or a college program. And the cheapest Professional Pilot Degrees in FAA approved programs are $150K.
Huh. I guess the airline that just hired me didn't get the memo, cuz I did all my training at FBOs and my degree is in psychology.
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Old 07-29-2014 | 08:54 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by mosteam3985
Aren't most regionals just requiring the ATP written be completed? If a person had the hours from the local FBO and has completed the written they would still qualify to be hired AFAIK.
But to "complete" the written you have to have the new training program. An airline can offer the training program to it's new hires but the FAA has made very clear the ATP CTP and basic indoc are two separate classes. Does any airline have an approved ATP CTP? It's going to get very interesting next week.
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Old 07-29-2014 | 09:00 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Twin Wasp
But to "complete" the written you have to have the new training program. An airline can offer the training program to it's new hires but the FAA has made very clear the ATP CTP and basic indoc are two separate classes. Does any airline have an approved ATP CTP? It's going to get very interesting next week.
PSA Mesa xjet envoy were all waiting for approval a few weeks ago.
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Old 07-29-2014 | 09:43 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by FlyingKat
All that worked well until the new ATP rules came out. Now to get hired under the new ATP rules, you MUST have an Professional Pilot Degree or be a graduate of a military flying program. It is a completely new world under this rule. The days of going to your FBO, building time and getting hired are over, unfortunately. There are going to be two ways to get hired in the future. Go through a military program or a college program. And the cheapest Professional Pilot Degrees in FAA approved programs are $150K.

Personally I spent $30K to get into this profession. If I were looking at this now there is no way I would spend 150K for it. The return just doesn't justify the investment.
Ummm. This is completely false. Read the reg before spouting bs.
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Old 07-29-2014 | 09:44 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by mosteam3985
Aren't most regionals just requiring the ATP written be completed? If a person had the hours from the local FBO and has completed the written they would still qualify to be hired AFAIK.
Not after the new rules come into effect in August. The days of studying the book and taking the ATP written are over. Also the days of going someplace and getting your ATP in a Seminole are over. You have to have attend an approved ground course to take the ATP written AND you have to go someplace with an approved simulator for the ATP flight portion. Which means either you go to an airline to get it or a company pays for you to go to FlightSafety.
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Old 07-29-2014 | 09:45 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by word302
Ummm. This is completely false. Read the reg before spouting bs.
Ummm...what is BS? Maybe you need to read the new reg
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Old 07-29-2014 | 09:48 PM
  #170  
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You only need a degree to meet the restricted time requirements. If you have 1500 hours and meet the other time requirements, there is no requirement for a degree or military time. You may want to go read the reg again.
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