9E's Retention Bonus - A Mirage in the Desert
11-30-2014, 11:43 AM
#132
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: Capt/Fo
Posts: 34
Anyone can comment on what ever thread they want, Shy has no agenda against 9e pilots. I believe he is only trying to help. If you want to be in the same spot you are right now as a first officer in 3-4 years, by all means you should stay at Endeavor. If you want to move your career forward, get out as quick as possible. The union leadership at 9e is so messed up, they will never do anything to help out the junior pilots on the seniority list.
11-30-2014, 12:54 PM
#133
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: B-767 FO
Posts: 554
Originally Posted by Farmlover
Why is shy guy still commenting on 9e topics. He's been gone for a good amount of time he has no clue what's going on here any more.
Honestly, I think some of you guys are in denial and continuously attempting to rationalize why you're staying. I get it, I do. I've been there and was there for 9 years, but I don't need to rationalize why I left. I was always leaving.
We signed that concessionary contract to avoid a rapid shutdown, provide 2 - 3 years to find employment elsewhere before most of the 200's were gone, and secure 81 - 900's for the lifers to fly into retirement.
And there are numerous lifers that don't even care to attempt the SSP and start over at Delta. There are also a great number of guys that failed the SSP and are struggling to make a move anywhere else. Somewhere around the 60% mark have failed.
So this leaves you a rapidly decreasing number of Captain seats and a large number of guys occupying what's left with the 900's.
Let's say y'all staff these 81 planes at 6 crews per plane. That's roughly 500 Captain seats. 486 to be precise. You must ask yourself where you currently stand on the seniority list and how long it'll take to get into the top 500 at 9E for a realistic outlook for upgrade.
How long do you wish to be a regional First Officer at 4th year pay with the occasional retention bonus?
Even more depressing math is how many jobs have been either sent to the desert or to other regionals. Just use the 141 - 200's. I won't bother to count all of the Mesaba and Colgan Saabs, Q400's, or the 16 Pinnacle 900's.
141 planes at 6 crews per plane = 1,692 pilot positions sitting in either Kingman or going to another Regional.
I wish y'all the best, but I think that First Officers would be better off attempting to upgrade elsewhere. Don't let a decade of your career be wasted as a 9E First Officer. And obviously all Captains should be trying to move on to the next level as well.
Last edited by FlyingOkra; 11-30-2014 at 01:21 PM.
11-30-2014, 06:49 PM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 389
Originally Posted by FlyingOkra
Which is funny, because you're still there and yet he seems to be better informed about the current outlook at 9E.
Honestly, I think some of you guys are in denial and continuously attempting to rationalize why you're staying. I get it, I do. I've been there and was there for 9 years, but I don't need to rationalize why I left. I was always leaving.
We signed that concessionary contract to avoid a rapid shutdown, provide 2 - 3 years to find employment elsewhere before most of the 200's were gone, and secure 81 - 900's for the lifers to fly into retirement.
And there are numerous lifers that don't even care to attempt the SSP and start over at Delta. There are also a great number of guys that failed the SSP and are struggling to make a move anywhere else. Somewhere around the 60% mark have failed.
So this leaves you a rapidly decreasing number of Captain seats and a large number of guys occupying what's left with the 900's.
Let's say y'all staff these 81 planes at 6 crews per plane. That's roughly 500 Captain seats. 486 to be precise. You must ask yourself where you currently stand on the seniority list and how long it'll take to get into the top 500 at 9E for a realistic outlook for upgrade.
How long do you wish to be a regional First Officer at 4th year pay with the occasional retention bonus?
Even more depressing math is how many jobs have been either sent to the desert or to other regionals. Just use the 141 - 200's. I won't bother to count all of the Mesaba and Colgan Saabs, Q400's, or the 16 Pinnacle 900's.
141 planes at 6 crews per plane = 1,692 pilot positions sitting in either Kingman or going to another Regional.
I wish y'all the best, but I think that First Officers would be better off attempting to upgrade elsewhere. Don't let a decade of your career be wasted as a 9E First Officer. And obviously all Captains should be trying to move on to the next level as well.
Honestly, I think some of you guys are in denial and continuously attempting to rationalize why you're staying. I get it, I do. I've been there and was there for 9 years, but I don't need to rationalize why I left. I was always leaving.
We signed that concessionary contract to avoid a rapid shutdown, provide 2 - 3 years to find employment elsewhere before most of the 200's were gone, and secure 81 - 900's for the lifers to fly into retirement.
And there are numerous lifers that don't even care to attempt the SSP and start over at Delta. There are also a great number of guys that failed the SSP and are struggling to make a move anywhere else. Somewhere around the 60% mark have failed.
So this leaves you a rapidly decreasing number of Captain seats and a large number of guys occupying what's left with the 900's.
Let's say y'all staff these 81 planes at 6 crews per plane. That's roughly 500 Captain seats. 486 to be precise. You must ask yourself where you currently stand on the seniority list and how long it'll take to get into the top 500 at 9E for a realistic outlook for upgrade.
How long do you wish to be a regional First Officer at 4th year pay with the occasional retention bonus?
Even more depressing math is how many jobs have been either sent to the desert or to other regionals. Just use the 141 - 200's. I won't bother to count all of the Mesaba and Colgan Saabs, Q400's, or the 16 Pinnacle 900's.
141 planes at 6 crews per plane = 1,692 pilot positions sitting in either Kingman or going to another Regional.
I wish y'all the best, but I think that First Officers would be better off attempting to upgrade elsewhere. Don't let a decade of your career be wasted as a 9E First Officer. And obviously all Captains should be trying to move on to the next level as well.
11-30-2014, 08:53 PM
#136
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: B-767 FO
Posts: 554
Originally Posted by vilcas
Where did you get your 60% fail rate for SSP? Being this misinformed makes your opinion on the future of 9e questionable at best. All current pilots at 9e have a good shot at going to Delta. By good I mean 60-80% and this is based on fact. 60% represents the number that have been given CJO's. The 80% will be overall once the majority of the second attempts go through. Let's also not forget that United and American will also be hiring and Delta will likely give more aircraft to 9e.
"All current 9E Pilots have a good shot at going to Delta. By good I mean 60-80% and this is based on fact."
Like the fact that the SSP is currently just for Captains, so that's not quite everybody. In fact that excludes 50% of the Pilot group.
But that is just 1 minor issue at a company with much larger problems. Feel free to address those as well.
12-01-2014, 05:00 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 737 Left
Posts: 828
Originally Posted by FlyingOkra
Straight from the Union emails associated with the Pilot group's frustrations associated with a lack of success rate for the SSP interviews. Do you not recall the Union and management addressing the issue of a large number of failures? Where do your factual numbers come from?
"All current 9E Pilots have a good shot at going to Delta. By good I mean 60-80% and this is based on fact."
Like the fact that the SSP is currently just for Captains, so that's not quite everybody. In fact that excludes 50% of the Pilot group.
But that is just 1 minor issue at a company with much larger problems. Feel free to address those as well.
"All current 9E Pilots have a good shot at going to Delta. By good I mean 60-80% and this is based on fact."
Like the fact that the SSP is currently just for Captains, so that's not quite everybody. In fact that excludes 50% of the Pilot group.
But that is just 1 minor issue at a company with much larger problems. Feel free to address those as well.
Just be happy you are out and stop trying to justify your move by pessing in others folks' Cheerios.
12-01-2014, 06:28 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 471
Originally Posted by FlyingOkra
Straight from the Union emails associated with the Pilot group's frustrations associated with a lack of success rate for the SSP interviews. Do you not recall the Union and management addressing the issue of a large number of failures? Where do your factual numbers come from?
"All current 9E Pilots have a good shot at going to Delta. By good I mean 60-80% and this is based on fact."
Like the fact that the SSP is currently just for Captains, so that's not quite everybody. In fact that excludes 50% of the Pilot group.
But that is just 1 minor issue at a company with much larger problems. Feel free to address those as well.
"All current 9E Pilots have a good shot at going to Delta. By good I mean 60-80% and this is based on fact."
Like the fact that the SSP is currently just for Captains, so that's not quite everybody. In fact that excludes 50% of the Pilot group.
But that is just 1 minor issue at a company with much larger problems. Feel free to address those as well.
12-01-2014, 08:34 AM
#139
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: B-767 FO
Posts: 554
Originally Posted by vilcas
Where did you get your 60% fail rate for SSP? Being this misinformed makes your opinion on the future of 9e questionable at best. All current pilots at 9e have a good shot at going to Delta. By good I mean 60-80% and this is based on fact. 60% represents the number that have been given CJO's. The 80% will be overall once the majority of the second attempts go through. Let's also not forget that United and American will also be hiring and Delta will likely give more aircraft to 9e.
12-01-2014, 08:40 AM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 320
Posts: 709
Originally Posted by FlyingOkra
Just so we're sticking with the factual information theme. 3 of 9 passed 2 weeks ago and that's 33% and the first round of 2nd attempts are today with Wychor leading the way.
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