AWAC Exercises Option - Extends Thru Feb 2018
04-28-2015 | 11:26 AM
#71
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[QUOTE=Coneydog;1870114]
That is a ridiculous reason to not work for AWAC. You must be kidding. And if you really are THAT guy who shows up and bumps another pilot out of the jumpseat who has been waiting there longer, then you are a complete douche bag. Most companies have an unlimited commuter clause anyway.
Have you tried getting out of PHL/LGA lately? 0 priority. Before the AA merge everything on Airways was a joke to commute on. This is not the case anymore. It's all fun and games until 5 AA guys are at the gate on an Airways 190 and then a 6th shows up.
I cringe commuting out of LGA now. It's awful. And good luck bumping a mainline guy off their jumpseat because you have "been there longer." Right.
That is a ridiculous reason to not work for AWAC. You must be kidding. And if you really are THAT guy who shows up and bumps another pilot out of the jumpseat who has been waiting there longer, then you are a complete douche bag. Most companies have an unlimited commuter clause anyway.
I cringe commuting out of LGA now. It's awful. And good luck bumping a mainline guy off their jumpseat because you have "been there longer." Right.
04-28-2015 | 11:33 AM
#72
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Unfortunately because that's exactly what the two options are.
I am not interested in taking any concessions. That's why I will be finding a new job within the next two years, or I will have no choice but to leave the industry. We had a real chance at changing things about a year or so ago, but PSA started a domino effect from which there is no recovery. When someone else will always do your job for a cheaper price, they will always be the ones who will be chosen to do so. Long gone are the days when quality actually matters. Management simply doesn't care any more.
I am not interested in taking any concessions. That's why I will be finding a new job within the next two years, or I will have no choice but to leave the industry. We had a real chance at changing things about a year or so ago, but PSA started a domino effect from which there is no recovery. When someone else will always do your job for a cheaper price, they will always be the ones who will be chosen to do so. Long gone are the days when quality actually matters. Management simply doesn't care any more.
Your hypocrisy is outrageous. You acknowledge someone doing your job for a cheaper price is wrong, but yet you work for a regional airline and perpetuate the very same condition in which you supposedly are upset with.
All of you, every one of you, need to start pointing the finger at yourself before you point it at others. You are not above this crap, you are neck deep in it.
Regionals are all going to fail, some very quickly some will be the last. But they are going to fail, its a mathematical certainty. You want to slowly remove the bandaid or just rip it off, the choice is yours.
04-28-2015 | 11:34 AM
#73
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Points are all valid if not for the company being in a huge labor dispute with their pilots. ZW making less on an AAG contract is all relative, if they've been making money hand over fist since flying for US Airways and suddenly they have to make "less" to them that's how they leverage the group to take less money. Worlds smallest violin playing for them having to, say, only make $900,000 a week on flying instead of $1 million.
No growth isn't explicitly said, there are fleet retirements, for hour limitation and planes turning into aging mx hogs but it doesn't say they won't seek to replace them.
There is as much that can be assumed in favor of a future as well as not having one, but if it worries you then seek another carrier and hope for the best!
04-28-2015 | 11:37 AM
#74
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Interesting perspective.....When PSA was told "accept the deal or be shut down" they did what they had to do. Similarly, Envoy said no to Parker twice before they got the "accept or we will shut you down" they accepted a flawed contract with no fleet size guarantee.
This is the Regional model. Accept it, get in and get out as soon as possible.
This is the Regional model. Accept it, get in and get out as soon as possible.
04-28-2015 | 11:44 AM
#75
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Coming from a potential new hire at AWAC (interviewed two weeks ago and was offered an August class date) I see this announcement as better than bad news, but not great news. I am by no means an expert and am not currently in the industry, but here is my take on it:
I see four underlying issues in a well written statement from the CEO (the E-mail was sent to me as I am a "future employee"):
1. No new contract. AAG did not provide a new long term contract for AWAC, which means they could not reach an agreement. AWAC had to execute the extension to stay in business and/or prevent a concessionary contract in the short term.
2. The Message from the CEO states : "In late 2008, we negotiated an option agreement with Airways that provided Air Wisconsin the right to continue to operate our aircraft beyond December 31, 2015. However, the agreement also provided that any such additional flying would be at improved economic terms for Airways (now American Airlines) – meaning the revenue we would receive from American for flying aircraft beyond the end of this year would be less than we receive from them today." So - AWAC is taking a pay cut. This means AAG may have future leverage to keep the pay lower for a future contract.
3. No growth. Though the message states only a small number of airframes will be retired, I have been told by many pilots to seek a place that is growing, not stagnant or shrinking. No growth = longer upgrade times for new hires and guys low on the seniority list. I've heard it is currently 4-4.5 years. They quoted 2.5 years in the interview, but I have been told by several AWAC pilots that this doesn't sound right. I'll defer to the pilots on here about upward movement.
4. The message talks about finding a new operating cost structure dependent on the current lower fuel prices. So if fuel prices stay low, great. No problem... But we all know they are not going to stay as low as they are right now. They probably won't skyrocket again, but they will go up. What if AWAC can't squeeze any more efficiency out of the - 200's?
I see the extension as great news for current employees. They have a minimum of three more years of job security. But this could be a little dicey for potential new hires. Hopefully, they will find ways to secure new long term contracts in the future. But with upgrade times where they are now, and no growth on the horizon, in my mind it would be a tough choice to go to AWAC right now. I am considering it (I have offers at TSA and AWAC). The contract, pay, benefits and work rules are great. But these good things have a potential shelf life, and I likely wouldn't be upgraded by the time they expire in 2018. The potential exists that a new hire now may have to start over somewhere else if contract negotiations go south. Though it may be a slim chance, there is a chance.
My two cents.
Mike
I see four underlying issues in a well written statement from the CEO (the E-mail was sent to me as I am a "future employee"):
1. No new contract. AAG did not provide a new long term contract for AWAC, which means they could not reach an agreement. AWAC had to execute the extension to stay in business and/or prevent a concessionary contract in the short term.
2. The Message from the CEO states : "In late 2008, we negotiated an option agreement with Airways that provided Air Wisconsin the right to continue to operate our aircraft beyond December 31, 2015. However, the agreement also provided that any such additional flying would be at improved economic terms for Airways (now American Airlines) – meaning the revenue we would receive from American for flying aircraft beyond the end of this year would be less than we receive from them today." So - AWAC is taking a pay cut. This means AAG may have future leverage to keep the pay lower for a future contract.
3. No growth. Though the message states only a small number of airframes will be retired, I have been told by many pilots to seek a place that is growing, not stagnant or shrinking. No growth = longer upgrade times for new hires and guys low on the seniority list. I've heard it is currently 4-4.5 years. They quoted 2.5 years in the interview, but I have been told by several AWAC pilots that this doesn't sound right. I'll defer to the pilots on here about upward movement.
4. The message talks about finding a new operating cost structure dependent on the current lower fuel prices. So if fuel prices stay low, great. No problem... But we all know they are not going to stay as low as they are right now. They probably won't skyrocket again, but they will go up. What if AWAC can't squeeze any more efficiency out of the - 200's?
I see the extension as great news for current employees. They have a minimum of three more years of job security. But this could be a little dicey for potential new hires. Hopefully, they will find ways to secure new long term contracts in the future. But with upgrade times where they are now, and no growth on the horizon, in my mind it would be a tough choice to go to AWAC right now. I am considering it (I have offers at TSA and AWAC). The contract, pay, benefits and work rules are great. But these good things have a potential shelf life, and I likely wouldn't be upgraded by the time they expire in 2018. The potential exists that a new hire now may have to start over somewhere else if contract negotiations go south. Though it may be a slim chance, there is a chance.
My two cents.
Mike
Don't get me wrong, every one of these regional airlines days are numbered, but some will go much quicker than the other ones. I haven't seen the announcement but American is not interested in renewing their contract long term, there is a reason for that. Smaller airlines will have to fail in order to make the bigger regionals stronger. But even the bigger regionals will fail. The non wholly owneds first.
04-28-2015 | 01:04 PM
#76
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Duh...PIC>SIC...but you are still going to need total time...if you have a Captain with 2,000 hours total time and 1,000 of that PIC that still doesn't make them a good candidate for a major.
Not everyone is going to get the quick upgrade...which means languishing at PSA's pay scale for the same amount of time as other regional pilots before they move on.
For a new pilot maybe you will make slightly more money because you are captain longer (but that changes with each passing year till you hit your head on those caps).....but it surely isn't a strong argument for anyone to leave AWAC (or other regionals) to start over at PSAs sub par pay scale...which is exactly what has been argued for months by some folks...especially on the PSA board.
Not everyone is going to get the quick upgrade...which means languishing at PSA's pay scale for the same amount of time as other regional pilots before they move on.
For a new pilot maybe you will make slightly more money because you are captain longer (but that changes with each passing year till you hit your head on those caps).....but it surely isn't a strong argument for anyone to leave AWAC (or other regionals) to start over at PSAs sub par pay scale...which is exactly what has been argued for months by some folks...especially on the PSA board.
04-28-2015 | 01:13 PM
#77
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AWAC was a great place to hang your hat over the past 10 years. Stabile for the most part and predictable.
Moving forward, you'd be taking a huge gamble going there IMO. A gamble that just isn't worth it with what else is out there. The only folks I can see who would make a smart choice going there is guys who live in domicile and whom are competitive for the majors but need recent experience to bulk up their resume. That's it.
Yes the pay is a bit higher but factor in the bonuses and upgrade times at the other carriers and you'll smoke an AWAC FO $$ wise.
While you're rotting away as an FO there will be tons of advancement opportunities at the growing companies. LCA for example. That's a golden ticket to DAL and UAL. At AWAC a large amount of the LCA have been there a long time, and aren't moving on (some couldn't even if they wanted to, yes I'm referring to CS).
Your goal shouldn't be to enjoy your time at the commuters, it should be to use them to get you qualified to GTFO. If you aren't anywhere near upgrade I would jump ship, personally. ASAP.
This coming from someone who spent 8 years there.
Moving forward, you'd be taking a huge gamble going there IMO. A gamble that just isn't worth it with what else is out there. The only folks I can see who would make a smart choice going there is guys who live in domicile and whom are competitive for the majors but need recent experience to bulk up their resume. That's it.
Yes the pay is a bit higher but factor in the bonuses and upgrade times at the other carriers and you'll smoke an AWAC FO $$ wise.
While you're rotting away as an FO there will be tons of advancement opportunities at the growing companies. LCA for example. That's a golden ticket to DAL and UAL. At AWAC a large amount of the LCA have been there a long time, and aren't moving on (some couldn't even if they wanted to, yes I'm referring to CS).
Your goal shouldn't be to enjoy your time at the commuters, it should be to use them to get you qualified to GTFO. If you aren't anywhere near upgrade I would jump ship, personally. ASAP.
This coming from someone who spent 8 years there.
04-28-2015 | 01:48 PM
#78
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Duh...PIC>SIC...but you are still going to need total time...if you have a Captain with 2,000 hours total time and 1,000 of that PIC that still doesn't make them a good candidate for a major.
Not everyone is going to get the quick upgrade...which means languishing at PSA's pay scale for the same amount of time as other regional pilots before they move on.
For a new pilot maybe you will make slightly more money because you are captain longer (but that changes with each passing year till you hit your head on those caps).....but it surely isn't a strong argument for anyone to leave AWAC (or other regionals) to start over at PSAs sub par pay scale...which is exactly what has been argued for months by some folks...especially on the PSA board.
Not everyone is going to get the quick upgrade...which means languishing at PSA's pay scale for the same amount of time as other regional pilots before they move on.
For a new pilot maybe you will make slightly more money because you are captain longer (but that changes with each passing year till you hit your head on those caps).....but it surely isn't a strong argument for anyone to leave AWAC (or other regionals) to start over at PSAs sub par pay scale...which is exactly what has been argued for months by some folks...especially on the PSA board.
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