Originally Posted by Waitingformins (Post 2028283)

Because the 824 are the highest earners and also it was a judge's arbitration. To assume Envoy wouldn't hold back a <12 guy is naive. His cost would be in check industry wide for regional flying.
Do you really think envoy will never need it's captains to run the operation. Even despite the shrinking, the slack will catch up and Envoy will need every pilot they have and will make every attempt to bottle neck the flow.
If you claim that the company is right sized then Envoy will have to hire 1:1 for flow plus the flying it's bringing back, which won't be easy in this environment. PSA pulled it off last year due to laterals that I doubt Envoy will be able to attract.

Originally Posted by Waitingformins (Post 2028283)

Because the 824 are the highest earners and also it was a judge's arbitration. To assume Envoy wouldn't hold back a <12 guy is naive. His cost would be in check industry wide for regional flying.
Do you really think envoy will never need it's captains to run the operation. Even despite the shrinking, the slack will catch up and Envoy will need every pilot they have and will make every attempt to bottle neck the flow.
If you claim that the company is right sized then Envoy will have to hire 1:1 for flow plus the flying it's bringing back, which won't be easy in this environment. PSA pulled it off last year due to laterals that I doubt Envoy will be able to attract.

Originally Posted by Eaglepilot84 (Post 2028310)

Haha, I love it when people say "because it was a judges arbitration." So I guess you're claiming that any flow after that is essentially worthless and can be "bottle necked" at any time because it's not a judges arbitration? Please elaborate. I might need to re-think some career plans thanks to your wisdom.

Originally Posted by FlameNSky (Post 2028326)

Claims to that effect have no legal or logical (business) sense to support it. They are simply saying what they hope will happen without any logical argument to support it.

Originally Posted by buddies8 (Post 2028321)

If you need to have it explained to you, then you are new to airlines or just playing it that way. But I will bite, judge ruled in arbitration when you hire at AA these 824 will be in those classes. Any flow after that is via an agreement by aag and the union at the regional w/o. Any contract and all contracts have been violated by airline management, selectively.

In other words, it's a lottery, you may win or you may loose. It is controlled and interpreted by aag, does not matter what you understand it to mean. AAG answer will be grieve it and that will take two years at best with AAG foot dragging with the final result being a compromise by aag and Alpa which will result in another watered down flow and no retro protection to those whom aag harmed.

You get it now. Just like our jobs, today we have one tomorrow we don't.

Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox (Post 2028235)

Did you ever stop and think for a single moment why you get singled out? You really are being singled out on many occasions, that's for real... More so than anybody I've seen here. Seriously, did you? I can say it's not because of your intelligent posts or witty banter, your succinctness or your ability to make a convincing argument. There's a real reason behind it. If you're blind to it, you've got some psychological issues. If you're not, and continue to act the way you do because you enjoy being a jack wagon...well, that answers a lot of questions.

When everyone around you stinks like crap all the time, it's probably not them and it's time to check the bottom of your own shoe.

Originally Posted by Eaglepilot84 (Post 2028243)

I'm curious as to why you arbitrarily pick the 824 as the point in time when AAG reneges on their flow agreement with envoy, specifically the Protected Pilot and the contractual flow after that? The only reason I can see you saying that is that you see the 824 agreement working as advertised, so have to pick on the agreements that are next in line in order to look like you have some legitimacy.

What you also fail to mention is that the flow agreements with PDT and envoy are essentially the same once you hit a certain threshold. That threshold being anybody hired here post DOS. Until then, envoy's flow is far and away better (in terms of amount being sent to AA vs. total size of the pilot group) then any other WO. Again, yes for those hired post DOS, the envoy and PDT flow provisions are relatively balanced out. Hence why the flow projection is the same general time period at both PDT and envoy. But you seem to be under the constant belief that AAG is going to renege on the provisions of the flow post-824, in order to "balance it out" with the other two WO's, yet provide no legitimate evidence or argument to back that prediction up.


Edit; Unless you've been out of the loop, envoy is "right sized" or at least very close to it. This does not include any of the anticipated (not yet announced) return of the TSA birds which would correlate to growth. So by your prediction, shouldn't the other two WO's be getting a nice little christmas gift from Dougie in the form of a better flow? Or do they have to wait for the end of the 824 to get a better flow?

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 2028356)

My, my.........such anger and rage. :cool:

If all you hear from me is a bunch of "blahs", it makes you look kinda ridiculous expending so much energy responding. You need a vacation. I recommend somewhere tropical. ;)