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-   -   The MRJ90 and E175-E2 are done (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/98531-mrj90-e175-e2-done.html)

gloopy 12-02-2016 08:51 AM


Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate (Post 2253908)
Guess you would look a little odd as a CEO to still worship at the ALPA altar.

You keep bringing that up, yet I have completely refuted it many times.

I've said repeatedly that SWAPA has way better scope than we do, and the APA has at least very similar scope to us, as well as Alaska, which is ALPA, having far inferior scope than we (and SWAPA and APA) do.

Not sure why you keep barking up that tree. It appears to be some kind of vectorless attack on ALPA, but I'm not sure to what end for you.

gloopy 12-02-2016 08:54 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2254137)
It's against Delta scope, but if it did happen, it would certainly be decided in court what happens. The problem with agreements that put people out of work is they generally get shot down in court, or the Delta pilots would get some sort of monetary scope payout. However, I think if Delta could get rid of Skywest, they would, but at this point in time, they simply can't.

DL will easily get rid of SKYW if they violate DALPA scope. That includes their sad fantasy of operating "non permitted types" as some kind of endless growth manifest destiny. They can do it if they want to on their own though, like IndyAir. SKYW is totally and completely dependent on guaranteed profit feed from a segment of the market that is shrinking rapidly.

gloopy 12-02-2016 08:57 AM


Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate (Post 2254140)
Delta pilots do not own the DL code. They own a vote on their piece of the puzzle. Even you said the same thing earlier. This is not rocket surgery there fella...

I wouldn't scalpel into that solid rocket booster any further if I were you then. We have far, far more than "a vote" as you put it. We have a legally binding contract. While we theoretically could vote in some relief, the default is that we don't have to do anything and the lines we've agreed to stay where they are. I know you really want those extra large RJ's at SKYW, but it doesn't look like its going to happen.

gloopy 12-02-2016 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate (Post 2254153)
You guys own a vote, and it's result. Nothing more to it.

We've already voted, and the results are already in and binding. Can they come to us and make a request for more relief? Sure, but, because we currently own that which we have negotiated thus far, any such relief will be up to us and not corporate and certainly not SKYW.

CBreezy 12-02-2016 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by msprj2 (Post 2254075)
Not sure but could Skywest feed for example United with 90 seat ac and feed Delta with 50 seaters or is that against scope for Delta pilots?

I don't know the depth of the DALPA scope clause, but, since SKW pilots don't have one, Skywest Holdings could, theoretically, start a new airline using 90 seaters or put it on a certificate without FL flying, like XJT and still be in compliance. See: GoJet origin story.

rickair7777 12-02-2016 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2254253)
DL will easily get rid of SKYW if they violate DALPA scope. That includes their sad fantasy of operating "non permitted types" as some kind of endless growth manifest destiny. They can do it if they want to on their own though, like IndyAir. SKYW is totally and completely dependent on guaranteed profit feed from a segment of the market that is shrinking rapidly.


This. DALPA actually does actually have deep scope covering more than just RJ size & quantity. IIRC they have provisions covering code shares as well limits on the size of RJ that a DCI carrier can operate for ANY partner.

So if SKW started flying airbus for UAL, I think that would violate DALPA scope.

As for SKW trying to go it alone as a LCC...

1. Long list of historical failures.
2. Very difficult transition to make, since you major airline partners will not want to subsidize the growth of another LCC competitor so safe to assume that the code-share regional flying would end as quickly as contracts allow.
3. Could SKW ramp up a profitable LCC before loss of RJ code-share bankrupts them?

If any regional could pull it off it would be SKW, but it would be a measure of last resort, probably only in the face of the near-total collapse of the regional business model. The company would be far smaller and far less stable following such a transition.

gloopy 12-02-2016 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 2254294)
I don't know the depth of the DALPA scope clause, but, since SKW pilots don't have one, Skywest Holdings could, theoretically, start a new airline using 90 seaters or put it on a certificate without FL flying, like XJT and still be in compliance. See: GoJet origin story.

The separate certificate trick only works if its not covered in a mainline pilot groups scope clause. So you'd have to check those first.

sailingfun 12-02-2016 09:50 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2254137)
It's against Delta scope, but if it did happen, it would certainly be decided in court what happens. The problem with agreements that put people out of work is they generally get shot down in court, or the Delta pilots would get some sort of monetary scope payout. However, I think if Delta could get rid of Skywest, they would, but at this point in time, they simply can't.

There is nothing to decide in court. There is no gray area here. If SW starts operating equipment in violation of what they agreed to in their contract with Delta the code share must end. If it did become a dispute which is not likely it would be handled by the NMB. The lawsuit would come into play when Delta sued SW for the damages incurred financially for their failure to honor the contract.

rickair7777 12-02-2016 09:51 AM


Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2254301)
The separate certificate trick only works if its not covered in a mainline pilot groups scope clause. So you'd have to check those first.


They wised up after certain regionals used that loophole.

sailingfun 12-02-2016 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 2254294)
I don't know the depth of the DALPA scope clause, but, since SKW pilots don't have one, Skywest Holdings could, theoretically, start a new airline using 90 seaters or put it on a certificate without FL flying, like XJT and still be in compliance. See: GoJet origin story.

They can not do that. The contract they signed forbids it. ACA tried it and their code was terminated.
At that point if they attempted it they are a competitor to Delta and management would be in the fight on our side.


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