yakfisher

Thanks for that Lonestar. I wasn’t sure what reality looks like or best case would look like but sure seems we aren’t heading for best case recovery anytime soon.

So looks like at least a few years added if not more to just upgrades let alone ever going to a Major. I even know a friend who was upgraded and is now a FO again.These times will pass but man this is rough.

Burt123

All the new CA’s will end up being downgraded once furloughs start.

KCaviator

This^^^

(Assuming they upgraded at first opportunity. Obviously it’ll all be based on seniority.)

LoneStar32

yep, that is how it usually works.

TangoIndiaMike1

Do you know if theirs anyway for them to retain their captain status in AQP so when upgrade time comes again will they have to go though 2 months of training.


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paulhood

I am not saying and really hope is not going to be the same, but it is the only thing we have to compare to. Upgrades at most regionals prior to 9-11 was pretty much like it was 2 months ago 18 months or less, after 9-11 it at some regionals it went up to 8-9 years. Keep in mind that after 9-11 US airspace was completely shutdown for only 6 days and the rest was just the recovery on the demand, we did not have the CARE act back then, so I do not know how would that impact the recovery.

Tpinks

No downgrades have ever happened while we are AQP, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there is nothing in place right this moment. however per article 11, You still wear your Captain uniform even once downgraded. So I would expect some sort of short course.

I wouldn’t worry about downgrades too much right now, it’s simply too far ahead to even remotely know what could happen between now and then. Being dual seat qualified however is a benefit to the company when there is no certainty to what will actually be flown. They can run a leaner staffing overall with more captains if they reduce reserve numbers and use captains on everything. I just flew captain on captain yesterday and I’m expecting to see it a lot this month. That captain that was my FO was senior into me, but was on reserve and he said his entire trip was FO flying.

Paying a year 2 captain $93 vs a year two FO $52, the difference is still less than what that a single FO gets. Doing a small example, using just 400 pilots, 200 CA/FO, each at our yr 2 rates, the hourly cost of those 400 pilots is $28,800. If we only furlough 100 FO and no downgrades, that drops it to $23,600. if you furlough 100 and downgrade 50 to make it a 150/150 seat split the total is $21,600. This is a very simple example, and does not account for the varying amounts our captains are making. The closer we furlough towards the captain seniority, the more likely we will have downgrades.

Burt123

The contract says nothing about being compensated as a CA while downgraded to an FO. Even though it does say you retain your stripes, one would assume you stay officially qualified as a CA and as such earn CA rates, but I wouldn’t assume anything in this business.

ORD170

The reason a airline downgrades is to reduce labor cost, so they wouldn’t still pay CA rates. I was downgraded in 2008 at S5, and I was able to wear my blazer, but not the hat. During republics 2008 furlough the downgrades we’re about 25 percent of those furloughed. You will have probably 30 days notice of a downgrade and they have to allow you to sell any PDOs at the captain rate, until 30 days after a downgrade.

Very possible the big 5 start furloughs in October, so we should all be preparing for lean times.

ORD170

I assume Republic is going for the free cash? If they are, then they could only furlough 10 percent of the SL.