Republic - Ends Mediation
01-19-2013, 08:16 AM
#41
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by Nevets
I think you are missing the point that the last legacy airline to strike, NWA, was under president Bush in 2005. It's not just the pilots who can shut down an airline under a strike.
01-19-2013, 08:24 AM
#42
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,097
Originally Posted by 3662forlife
As I (and others) mentioned, we need a new EBoard, Attorney, Analyst and Negotiating Committee, what we have hasn’t worked and, based on past practice, won’t ever work.
FAPA negotiated 2 contracts. What Frontier pilots have told me is that the first CBA left out stuff because of the rapid growth. In the second one, they fixed the FO parts as the FO’s were going to be FO’s for a while (sound familiar?).
They have trip and duty rigs, CX pay, reassignment language, decent pay, even after concessions, and completed the negotiations in a fraction of the time we’ve spent at it. Even their concessions didn’t touch a work rule and came out OK.
I say, bring in the experienced FAPA negotiators, let them hire their Attorney(s) and Experts/Analysts and see what they can do for us. They can’t do any worse than what we have.
And we all get to vote on the results anyway.
FAPA negotiated 2 contracts. What Frontier pilots have told me is that the first CBA left out stuff because of the rapid growth. In the second one, they fixed the FO parts as the FO’s were going to be FO’s for a while (sound familiar?).
They have trip and duty rigs, CX pay, reassignment language, decent pay, even after concessions, and completed the negotiations in a fraction of the time we’ve spent at it. Even their concessions didn’t touch a work rule and came out OK.
I say, bring in the experienced FAPA negotiators, let them hire their Attorney(s) and Experts/Analysts and see what they can do for us. They can’t do any worse than what we have.
And we all get to vote on the results anyway.
01-19-2013, 08:26 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,097
Originally Posted by Bolo
ALL I can say is WOW!
Stinky, that is the million dollar question. Is the IBT really looking at an average standard or are they asking for Jetblue type of rates? Obviously, the two parties are way off!
For 3662forlife, you are smoking some good crack if you think FAPA will get involved in ANY of this. Nor do I think the RAH pilots want us involved. You are right that FAPA has been effective in negotiations but this is not our fight. I would be asking my representatives in the union "what is really going on"?
I am on the sidelines cheering for for RAH pilots to get a fair and equitable contract. Good luck to you all.
Stinky, that is the million dollar question. Is the IBT really looking at an average standard or are they asking for Jetblue type of rates? Obviously, the two parties are way off!
For 3662forlife, you are smoking some good crack if you think FAPA will get involved in ANY of this. Nor do I think the RAH pilots want us involved. You are right that FAPA has been effective in negotiations but this is not our fight. I would be asking my representatives in the union "what is really going on"?
I am on the sidelines cheering for for RAH pilots to get a fair and equitable contract. Good luck to you all.
01-19-2013, 09:10 AM
#44
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by TillerEnvy
What is FAPA? Is that the Former Frontier Airline Pilots Association? How exactly can a defunct union "get involved"? So, from now on, please refer to it as FFAPA. Thanks.
How many of us at F9 have fully joined IBT? Maybe 20 at the most. If that is not an indicator how jacked the IBT is then nothing will get through to you RAH BRO!
TICK, TOCK, we are on the clock toward separation. Oh! by the way how is BB going to use our pilot groups to "WHIPSAW" each other? One of your favorite catch words.
For the rest of you at RAH good luck. For TE you are truly a D-BAG!
01-19-2013, 09:12 AM
#45
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by Nevets
Well, first you inferred that the last legacy strike was under Clinton. That was false. And you inferred that comair was under Clinton. That is also false. Then you asked about the number of strikes under the bush administration. It was pointed out to you that there were four. Then in your rebuttal, you expanded it to the years of the Clinton administration because you didn't like the answers. So I don't know what you point is or cared. I was just pointing out that your assertions were incorrect. Anyway, there were 13 strikes under reagan, 6 under Clinton, 4 under bush, and 2 so far under obama. To me that doesn't really say much anything other than the industry is maturing and consolidating so naturally there will be less strikes as time goes on.
01-19-2013, 09:20 AM
#46
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky
Umm...did you read the original post before posting that? The mediator just ended mediation. That's the whole point of this thread.
When the mediator sees some indications that the message has been received, mediation will continue.
01-19-2013, 09:40 AM
#47
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by TillerEnvy
What is FAPA? Is that the Former Frontier Airline Pilots Association? How exactly can a defunct union "get involved"? So, from now on, please refer to it as FFAPA. Thanks.
I can go with FFAPA, if you're OK with F357, Failing 357. And one day we'll see which is ultimately more effective in representing their pilots and which offers the most total compensation to their groups.
Want to go through the CBA's line-by-line? How come the NC's mantra has been, "Frontier has it!"?
Ever try buying dinner with an airtight Scope clause?
Without re-reading it, the NC dropped their "demand" by 25% then reduced that "demand" by an additional 50%? They must have started pretty dang high a couple of years ago.
No more jetBlue + CBA, now it's Horizon CBA or bust?
There's a bigger picture here that started with "The Slate's" philosophy, timing of negotiations and their choice to open only 4 article. I liked The Slate, Pat is twice the leader that Craig is.
I hear that, depending on the day, Craig either implodes or explodes whenever the words, "The Slate" are mentioned in his presence. Why is that?
That decision has had long reaching, career devastating consequences for the RAH pilot group, but I'll leave that for you to figure out. IMO, it's a strong DFR case on behalf of the native RAH'ers.
Good luck with the NMB, I guess it can only go 2 ways now, iced for months or impasse, and no one knows which way it's headed
01-19-2013, 11:27 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by Bolo
TE, I really think you need to be concentrating on YOUR union that does not seem to be getting the job done!
How many of us at F9 have fully joined IBT? Maybe 20 at the most. If that is not an indicator how jacked the IBT is then nothing will get through to you RAH BRO!
TICK, TOCK, we are on the clock toward separation. Oh! by the way how is BB going to use our pilot groups to "WHIPSAW" each other? One of your favorite catch words.
For the rest of you at RAH good luck. For TE you are truly a D-BAG!
How many of us at F9 have fully joined IBT? Maybe 20 at the most. If that is not an indicator how jacked the IBT is then nothing will get through to you RAH BRO!
TICK, TOCK, we are on the clock toward separation. Oh! by the way how is BB going to use our pilot groups to "WHIPSAW" each other? One of your favorite catch words.
For the rest of you at RAH good luck. For TE you are truly a D-BAG!
Seperation...remember the old saying..."be careful what you ask for." Bedford still can't FIND anyone who wants to buy you...at ANY price and you're still losing money.
Not a good sign for the future.
01-19-2013, 11:31 AM
#49
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by TillerEnvy
What is FAPA? Is that the Former Frontier Airline Pilots Association? How exactly can a defunct union "get involved"? So, from now on, please refer to it as FFAPA. Thanks.
You know...the ones that gave away...oops, "negotiated" concessions to BB that he never needed...but they offered in hopes of screwing you.
01-19-2013, 12:15 PM
#50
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Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: Left
Posts: 143
Craig is the plague of many a RAH pilot. While he tries to get his Midwest contract back, those of us who have been towing the rope long since before Oct '07 will be left in the dust. We, who are qualified and apt to moving on to brighter pastures will get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from years of abuse.
Thanks IBT, NC and F9 for sucking up hundreds of millions of dollars of our hard earned money...
PS... this lowly rj never wanted your DEN, Airbus or your CBA but alas my career expectations surrender to yours
Thanks IBT, NC and F9 for sucking up hundreds of millions of dollars of our hard earned money...
PS... this lowly rj never wanted your DEN, Airbus or your CBA but alas my career expectations surrender to yours
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