really? what non-US airline are you at ? your circling minimums are basic VFR mins by the way. You are not at the instrument approach plate MDA and circling.

 

Some circling MDAs are higher than 1,000', and some circling visibility minimums are greater than three miles. Check EGE RNAV approach plate for circling minimums. 2,670 AGL, 3miles visibility for cat C and D aircraft.

Joe

 

The airlines call this a circling maneuver, not technically an instrument approach, FAA blessed.

 

That's great if your airline teaches it and you do it enough in reality to stay proficient. The biggest "gotcha" we encountered was excessive descent rate (>1000fpm) after leaving MDA. We always briefed the PM to call out VSI. We were allowed to leave MDA with the runway, but not VASI/PAPI in sight. Of course we were flying private jets you could just about park inside a Boeing.

 

And we almost never do them in the real world, in my experience it's a sim thing and about as likely in the real-world as a V1 cut. The V1 cut is probably safer too.

Had a buddy dispatched to small uncontrolled mountain airport many years ago (in an RJ). It was night with weather and the winds would require a circling maneuver from an ILS. He told them it was a bad idea, and was told that weather was legal for the approach. After being threatened with discipline, he took the flight... did the ILS, went missed at the MAP, straight out to the hold fix and subsequent divert. He never for a second intended to do anything other than the straight-out published missed

 

let me clarify since some people are asleep at the briefing

YOUR circling mimimums are the same as basic VFR mins

 

One does not need to be at charted minimums to circle. For those using operations specifications, the minimums applicable for that pilot on that flight aren't necessarily what's on the IAP chart, but what are prescribed for the operator.

The airlines don't "call" it a circling maneuver. It is a circling maneuver.. Any circling to a runway with which the approach is not aligned, is circling, whether it's done at 450' or 1000' or higher. That one may use a higher minimum doesn't change it from being a circling maneuver.

What the learjet did wasn't an authorized circling maneuver. It occurred from a procedure that prohibited circling at night.

What other posters are describing is circling with consideration given to the safe outcome. Circling at minimums can be a dangerous act, subject to a number of errors and risks. Circling at night at minimums, whatever the minimums, carries higher risks.

Circling minimums aren't only found on charts. There is no prohibition against acting at a higher level of safety, whether it's personal minimums, company minimums, OpSpec or other prescribed minimums, etc. There is also no prohibition against doing so with an established set of criteria, including refusing to leave those minimums until specific visual elements are available, lighting, runway length, and/or the applicability of stabilized approach criteria is met.

The Learjet in this case did none of this. The circle was at night, when circling at night was not authorized. It was to a runway with nearby terrain, and a short runway. It was conducted in low conditions, as evidenced by the available video and reports, and the crew call requesting lights, when the lights were already full intensity. Their circling maneuver was up and down, not consistent, below published numbers, highly unstable, ending in a steep dive to impact.

The lear shouldn't have been there to begin with, but certainly would have benefitted from adhering to higher minimums, and established, defined circling parameters. It would have benefitted from going elsewhere. Perhaps company operations were at Gillespe, and they needed that Learjet back on the ground, available for the next call.

How's that working out for them?

 

Orkin can probably help you with the bug that is apparently up your butt.

 

In our world of uncontrolled Tinytown, USA, circles aren't uncommon at all. Busy airports too. VOR-A over the top, circle to land 19 was the default arrival at TEB for YEARS. Day or night, in all kinds of weather. ILS 6, circle to 1 is still used any time winds are strong out of the northwest at TEB. Day or night, in all kinds of weather (sometimes with less than ideal results-another Learjet in a low energy state and excess bank).

Circles aren't just sim exercises for us. But as for technique, we use the autopilot to precisely maintain altitude control until in a position to make final descent to the runway. And we certainly don't game the system by cancelling IFR when the maneuver is specifically N/A on the chart.

This unfortunate accident has and will continue to receive intense scrutiny, partly because of all the electronic surveillance that captured the event. ATC tapes, Ring camera video, Flightaware track, etc. As with other incidents of this type, I try to learn from other's mistakes so I'm not the one getting the scrutiny someday.

 

Did the circle to GUC RWY 24 several times in an E175. Every time it was severe daytime VMC; wouldn't even think about trying that approach in anything less.