Accident today, Naples FL...
02-28-2024 | 10:13 AM
#41
Clean it up - make it BIG
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 248
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From: B737NG forward-facing aft lav
A buddy told me that he thought the fuel shutoff gate on the levers could be triggered inadervently by the PIC reaching across for the flaps as the SIC idles the levers. Levers could push the PIC's foream down against the latches, latches somehow get activated, and the levers could then continue past idle to cutoff, assuming the SIC was somewhat aggressive with his power chop.
CRJ had a similar shutoff latch, but I don't recall anything like that ever happening. I think the CRJ latches had to be pulled up? Been a long time. Maybe a sleeve got caught?
I do remember that when I shut the engines down that I was meticulous about doing them deliberately and one at a time with a pause, to avoid developing any dangerous muscle memory that might bite me in the heat of the moment. After watching CA's grabbing both and shutting it all done in one smooth motion.
CRJ had a similar shutoff latch, but I don't recall anything like that ever happening. I think the CRJ latches had to be pulled up? Been a long time. Maybe a sleeve got caught?
I do remember that when I shut the engines down that I was meticulous about doing them deliberately and one at a time with a pause, to avoid developing any dangerous muscle memory that might bite me in the heat of the moment. After watching CA's grabbing both and shutting it all done in one smooth motion.
I also have lots of time in the CRJ... most of it in climb.
The locking mechanism to prevent shutdown from idle was a flat tab aft of the power lever (red tabs in linked photo below; CRJ and 604 virtually identical) which typically was lifted by the fingers while hooking the thumb over the power lever. That was more ergonomic than trying to lift that tab with your thumb.
Your buddy's theory sounds completely plausible. The PIC's wrist (or any other object such as an iPad or clipboard) could lift those tabs as the power is retarded.
https://www.airteamimages.com/bombar...e_39274/large/
02-28-2024 | 11:37 AM
#42
Banned
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,208
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Here is a video of the throttles being reduced while CA has hands on flap switch, and the cutoff handles being activated as a result:
https://youtu.be/oLq829q3g4o
https://youtu.be/oLq829q3g4o
Yesterday | 01:28 PM
#43
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Joined: May 2010
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Thread revived as the NTSB final report is out: a rare simultaneous dual-engine malfunction.
Probable cause, pasted from the report:
Corrosion of both engines’ variable geometry (VG) system components, which led to their operation in an off-schedule position and resulted in near-simultaneous sub-idle rotating compressor stalls on approach, subsequent loss of thrust in both engines, and an off-airport landing. Contributing to the accident was inadequate fault isolation guidance from the engine manufacturer, which prevented the identification of corrosion buildup in VG system components during troubleshooting of hung start events of both engines about 1 month before the accident.
Probable cause, pasted from the report:
Corrosion of both engines’ variable geometry (VG) system components, which led to their operation in an off-schedule position and resulted in near-simultaneous sub-idle rotating compressor stalls on approach, subsequent loss of thrust in both engines, and an off-airport landing. Contributing to the accident was inadequate fault isolation guidance from the engine manufacturer, which prevented the identification of corrosion buildup in VG system components during troubleshooting of hung start events of both engines about 1 month before the accident.
Today | 01:20 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,418
Likes: 120
From: Window seat
Similar engines investigated. Seven (?) more had corrosion problems for a total of 9 (counting the two in the accident aircraft). Four of the other 7 engines came from the same Part 135 operator. Six of the 9 engines with problems came from one operator.
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