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So controllers get more rest.........


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So controllers get more rest.........

Old 04-19-2011, 06:28 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by afterburn81
I guess my real question is, do you think this is a regular thing to be scheduled for 8 hours between shifts as a controller? I know at the regional level of airlines at a company that is not even considered the bottom of the barrel, 8 hours or rest between shifts has become very common. I guess we as pilots are just getting used to it. So maybe science will change for us.
Yes, quite common. It happens to me, and some of my team, at least once a week, sometimes twice.
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:29 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by RuttR
No, the difference is that the controllers arnt privatized so theres no one lobbying against them. If the govenment didnt care about cost at all these towers would have been staffed with more than one controller since the very beginning.
That's exactly what the controller was dreaming to himself that night.
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:52 AM
  #33  
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Mod note -

No need to start multiple threads about this issue in multiple forums.
This is a huge safety issue and affects ALL facets of aviation - not just Majors, not just Regionals. This forum was started exactly for discussions like these.

Av8rking - please stop with the "censorship" and "powers that be" commentary. No one is out to get you or targeting your posts specifically. People tend to post in the forums that they most frequent, even though using the 'new posts' button to refresh all posts will provide visibility to all forums.

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Last edited by USMCFLYR; 04-19-2011 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:52 AM
  #34  
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I am the "power that be" that moved and combined all the controller sleeping threads into the appropriate SAFETY forum.

To answer the question that Eastern already answered, yes, I spent about 10 years of my adult life working a day shift, and then coming in that night for the mid, with exactly 8 hours rest.

On Labor Day, 2006, the agency removed all music radios from the workspace. To be honest, it helped to keep awake on the mid.

Have I fallen asleep? Heck ya. Anybody who says they NEVER fell asleep is a liar or a freak.
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:43 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
I am the "power that be" that moved and combined all the controller sleeping threads into the appropriate SAFETY forum.

To answer the question that Eastern already answered, yes, I spent about 10 years of my adult life working a day shift, and then coming in that night for the mid, with exactly 8 hours rest.

On Labor Day, 2006, the agency removed all music radios from the workspace. To be honest, it helped to keep awake on the mid.

Have I fallen asleep? Heck ya. Anybody who says they NEVER fell asleep is a liar or a freak.
What about Go Pills and Slow Pills for controllers? Better [productivity] through chemistry, right? And for that matter, why not 121/135 operators as well?
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:13 AM
  #36  
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There's a huge difference between working 3pm to 11pm, and coming back in 8 hours later, 7am to 3pm. Most guys might yawn, but it's day time, traffic is moving, there's ambient noise, other people to interact with, etc. You do stay awake.

But the mid is far, far different (except for those night time busy places like Fedex into MEM, or Oceanic at Oakland Center).

I use to get Mountain Dew, because I thought it had the most caffine. I'm sure there have been guys use stronger stuff.
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:28 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by RuttR
No, the difference is that the controllers arnt privatized so theres no one lobbying against them. If the govenment didnt care about cost at all these towers would have been staffed with more than one controller since the very beginning.

You are really saying nearly the same thing I am in a slightly different way.

The Government cares a lot less how much of YOUR money they spend than the airlines care about how much of theirs is spent.
Why do you think they lobby against giving us better work rules?

This thread is so pertinent right now it should have stayed on the Majors and gotten the attention it deserves.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:44 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Prior to this, the rest / duty rules were very simple. Nothing like flight crews.

- 1 day in 7 had to be off duty

- 8 hours between duty periods (split shifts notwithstanding)

- 10 hour max duty day

- Per contract, no more than 2 hours on position without a break


So, for these mid shifts, you could work 3pm-11pm on Monday, 7am-3pm on Tues, and come in that late evening at 11pm, and work until 7am the next morning.

It has exactly 8 hours rest between each, with 8 hour shifts.
In the Navy, we called that 2, 2, 2, and 80: 2 mids, 2 eves, 2 days, and 80 hours off. The WORST sked ever created! I'll take six months of port and starboards (12 on and 12 off) over a month or 222&80.




IF we want to see the FAA act on pilot rest, all we need to do is draw straws, have a couple crews a day fall asleep and overshoot the destination. Do that for a couple weeks, and well get a change. Since these crews would lose their tickets, it is only fair the rest of us kick in a few bucks each to make up their salary for the remainder of their career.

If we REALLY want it to happen, one of the crews will need to become martyrs and have to fly the tanks dry. ("One, two, three, NOT IT!")
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:07 PM
  #39  
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We can't just say controllers are the ones falling asleep too. I don't know how many times I've heard a story that starts with so there we were over the northern Atlantic when I realized my eyes were shut and so were my co-pilot and engineer. It's needs to be looked at across the board. They only thing is that controllers fall under government funding were the pilots fall under the company's money.
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:06 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by FlyJSH
In the Navy, we called that 2, 2, 2, and 80: 2 mids, 2 eves, 2 days, and 80 hours off. The WORST sked ever created! I'll take six months of port and starboards (12 on and 12 off) over a month or 222&80.




IF we want to see the FAA act on pilot rest, all we need to do is draw straws, have a couple crews a day fall asleep and overshoot the destination. Do that for a couple weeks, and well get a change. Since these crews would lose their tickets, it is only fair the rest of us kick in a few bucks each to make up their salary for the remainder of their career.

If we REALLY want it to happen, one of the crews will need to become martyrs and have to fly the tanks dry. ("One, two, three, NOT IT!")
Couldn't agree more. Sounds idiotic but it's really the only solution. I guess it wouldn't have to be simple napping. Just not trying so incredibly hard to stay awake. We'll have to find some guys that are just about ready to retire. That way they don't have to worry about a record or getting canned.
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