To run a rejoin you need someway to estimate range. I forget the exact numbers but if two aircraft are pointing at each other (ideally they are 180 degrees out with parallel tracks offset by about 8 miles), both going .78 mach, you need to start the 180 degree turn at something like 20 miles to end up within a mile or so of each other. Cant be done with eyeballs alone.

have you been to the Reno Air Races? Each race begins with formation flying around a mountain. each aircraft joins up with the lead....look at the military aircraft prior to all this advanced cockpit avionics they joined in formation day/night by looking out their cockpit window.

If the other a/c was still climbing out & Malaysia a/c spotted him he could catch up...the reality of it is if this was a planned a/c take over then they would have researched the standard flight paths for every airline flying out of Malaysia airports by just watching flight aware and other sites each night for a certain amount of time. runway/which sid changes...the Jet routes are usually pretty standard. That time of night there would be limited t/o delays so the timing could be more accurate then say during the day time.

Do I think this idea is far fetched? Yes, but I thought the article was interesting enough to share...and pray to God that that terrorist did not take this plane by any of these means because that means their planned attack on a city with the plane will be as stealth as this one. Scary to think about.

I am still leaning towards a a/c mechanical/bomb that caused the crew to turn towards their emergency airport area as there are countless airports in the area that they turned that are long enough for a triple 7 and it was the shortest route to land. see malaysia own website for their destination then you can see a map of the airports in the area the aircraft turn took them towards. The oil rig operator eye witness account that a plane at that time and area was "on fire" for about 10-15 seconds.

I have a question on how it is known the FMS was modified? Does the FMS report back the change in the flight plan via ACARS or something? Or is there just circumstantial evidence that it was changed? Sorry if this has already been asked, I scanned all the posts here and didn't see anything.

Seems to be based on aircraft path via radar track, there are ways to tell, but prefer not to detail those.

Bottom line, it appears to be speculation that the FMS inputs were altered.
They say it passed close to certain waypoints, but they would have been nailed with FMS input. This suggests heading inputs may have been made instead, or not.

Raw radar data may not accurately reflect path or altitude depending on type of radar and operator.

The more I think about it, the less I buy it. The odds of getting to take-off behind a "target" departure from your home airport, after you've been timing their push, and your push, for days... not that great. The odds of going out a certain distance the wrong way, and joining up with a specific but uncooperative someone in the dark, without some tell-tale holding, especially without TCAS ON over a given point of space at a specific time... not that great, IMO. Even with holding, and somehow I heard my intended "target" coming, and saw them coming, I think I would muck it up pretty good.

I think the chances are just as good that would accidentally join up on Maverick and Goose a freighter flying rubber dog-sH$+ out of Hong-Kong, straight to Diego Garcia.

Or over Macho Grande. They might even end up doing something no aviator has done before, and be the first to get over Macho Grande.

I tend to consider this myth busted.

Questions and observations:

It seems the better we endow our aircraft with ability to nearly "fly themselves" (which is, of course, a misnomer) the more potential for unplanned events we introduce into the system. I could very nearly stand inside the engine compartment of my first vehicle and I could fix almost anything on it. There just wasn't that much to go wrong. Now, it can be difficult to find even small issues because the whole machine has become "easier" to drive, but more complicated behind the scenes. Reading through this forum makes it so obvious to me that there are so many things that could have gone wrong with the 777. It has really made me look at pilots through new lenses. There are many systems that they must understand in order to survive any unplanned event. Thank you all for your diligence.

Question 1: Is there no kind of "check-in" that is required along a commercial flight's path that, if missed, would cause a search or at least an attempt to contact? It seemed like it took a long time to realize this flight was "missing."

Question 2: Are there legitimate or ordinary reasons a pilot might turn off the transponders? Does it interfere with other flights while at the terminals or near the airports?

Question 3: Is there any reasonable (or perhaps unreasonable but possible) explanation for an aircraft to appear to follow waypoints other than pilot input?

Question 4: Is there any reasonable explantion for engines to send or appear to send acars data after a craft is no longer airborne?

As I understand the information floating around, we are all collectively apparently relying on data from various governments, as well as data from satellites made and launched by different companies for different purposes, and a multitude of experts with varying expert opinions. I know nothing about satellites, but if they ever require calibration, for instance, and that one set of data is off, there could be a huge impact on our understanding of the entire event. There are just so many variables.

Thanks in advance for your indulgence.

JJ21,

Just guessing here, but I'd bet you haven't done too many rejoins with a tanker on a dark night over an ocean? 'Fess up.

mournlight,


HCM was looking for the plane within minutes and presumably calling KL on phone lines asking about the missing plane on the handoff. It was called "missing" pretty quickly. Somewhere, a pilot posted that he heard HCM "going crazy" on 121.5 trying to reach MH 370.

No, the FMS is pretty simple, it will follow the flight plan entered. GIGO is the word here--garbage in, garbage out. And, it's already been posted, their was an ACARS transmission with the change in "next waypoint".

ACARS data will cease when on the ground with engine shutdown, although there are variations specific to engine/airframe and operator desires.

Transponder isn't normally turned OFF unless it fails or electrical fault. Erroneous outputs are another reason. I don't know of a TCAS system that will present anything if the transponder is OFF.

GF

Yes I have been to the Reno Air Races. I have done many rejoins without benefit of advanced avionics. All the rejoins you have witnessed have been with a cooperative aircraft in a steady turn allowing the other aircraft to use geometry to affect closure. You cut across the inside of a circle using more bank than the aircraft you are rejoining on. With the straight ahead rejoin the overtake is achieved by significantly reducing power and giving the other aircraft an advantage.

Is it possible for a 777 to rejoin on an unaware 777 at night, at altitude, sure. Did it happen in this case no. It is much more likely the USS Enterprise traveled back in time and accidentally destroyed the triple with its tractor beam. Don't worry they were all beamed safely onboard and will be returned when Spock discovers that one of the passengers descendants is instrumental in developing warp drive or saves the whales I forget which.

no tanker formation...just reno air racing formation.

Do I think that article is what happened? no but thought I would posted...I think the oil rig operator who witnessed an "aircraft on fire for 10-15 sec" is more correct...then a Payne Stewart type situation. Stewarts plane climbed up to Fl510 well above certified a/c alt and as low as Fl190 (some reports on line say as low as 10,000) this oscillation of climbing/descending occurred throughout that flight (for 5 hours) until the a/c ran out of fuel.

Who knows? sad for all of the families.

Not to mention the new members here that are trolling for info.
Reporter style.