Assuming for a moment that you're right about "the captain disregarding the f/o's multiple remarks" as being the cause, how would you correct that if not by adjusting the training?

 

What treatment plan do you suggest? Recognizing and pointing out a sign or a symptom doesn't cure the disease, IMO.

 

That is precisely what should have happened......

 

What in my post possibly gave you the idea that I suggested some training plan would correct that sort of fault. Maybe you got my post confused with some else's???

 

I think you might have misread my post.

 

The only part of your post that I asked a question about was this part:
I asked if you really thought CRM should be scrapped and some sort of academic ground school course replace it?
I doubted that plan would help prevent a similar occurrence in any manner.

The rest of my post was my opinion of this mishap and had nothing to do with your post.

 

I agree that this was a preventable accident and a tragic loss. There are valuable lessons to learn here, but tell me, how many successful flights have there been since this accident that didn't result in a crash (You know where CRM worked)?

The truth is that CRM does work. Your advocacy to "scrap it" and administer death by powerpoint in the classroom shows just how out of touch you are with line operations. If you want perfection or nothing, you'll always get nothing.

 

Well, maybe it's me. Grey matter has a bad habit: it atrophies with time. However, in this case you replied to my question, what treatment plan do you suggest, with "What in my post possibly gave you the idea that I suggested some training plan would correct that sort of fault. Maybe you got my post confused with some else's???"

Since I mentioned treatment, not training in that post, I replied, I think you might have misread it and quoted your question.

Now you're telling me you were replying to a different post, not the question you actually quoted above it.

As for your new question, my answer is yes. I think a pilot's professional development ought to include the academic acquisition of such fundamental concepts as I have from time to time touched on in this thread and under Flight Schools and Training.

I respect your right to your opinions, so I didn't comment on those.

 

I don't think I can answer your question because it's loaded. To my knowledge, no scientific study has been conducted to test the effect of CRM on line operations. What exists is statistical data some interest groups are arbitrarily converting to information promoting CRM without any basis. Nothing suggests that flights are successful as a result of applied CRM any more than that those that crash are not. It's illogical and misleading to draw and propagate cause-effect conclusions from observation of co-occurence alone.

Staying in touch with line operations is only possible for me now remotely, by reading this report and similar sources of information. I agree, it's not the same as flying the line in 2014. But the issues I try to raise are chronic, and this 2014 report, among others, proves they need as much attention today as ever.

I don't advocate aiming for perfection in line operation. I don't know how you came to that conclusion when I specifically advise against it (e.g. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fl...ionmaking.html).

 

Actually a good next CRM step in this particular case would have been for the F/O to make physical contact with the captain to make sure he wasn't sleep walking.