Quote:
Originally Posted by busdriver12
Well, I wonder why. Maybe because commuting into a long haul flight ain't so smart, and it's fatiguing? Think we're trying to work on our safety record here.
Busdriver12, I have nothing against you. But I want everyone who is looking at FedEx to see your comment. His/her thinking is not unique at FedEx. What is 100% acceptable and allowed at every major airline is considered very taboo here.
So if you have a long haul flight at FedEx, you're expected to come in the afternoon before (assuming your hometown has afternoon flights) or the night before.
If I slept all day and then jumped into a long haul flight, who cares? I am well rested. I am probably more well rested than the local bubba who Honey See Honey Doed all day, or who was up all day and then decided to grab a few hours of sleep before showtime, or who drove 3-4 hours to work.
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Originally Posted by Raptor
There’s more to the story of the new hire being removed from the trip after jumpseating in. This story happened years ago and I have not heard of it happening since.
Many pilots confuse this concept in the CBA. There is NO prohibition against jumpseating into ANY trip. None, zero, Nada. What is often thought of as a prohibition is simply that one loses the protection of not getting a disciplinary letter if the combined notional Duty of Jumpseat through trip is too long. It takes quite a few of these letters before you even stand in front of the man.
Jumpseat away—legally. I would argue that many of the commuters who Jumpseat into long international trips are more rested than those who live in Memphis.
Would you recommend to a new hire on probation that they jumpseat into a long haul flight? Why or why not? If you said yes, I would say you're full of ...
Section 26.J.2.
A pilot may use a Company staging jumpseat to position himself to his base for the start of his scheduled trip IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FOLLOWING:
a. the period beginning at scheduled showtime of a pilot's inbound jumpseat and ending 30 minutes after the scheduled termination of his first duty period must be less than 13:30.
~~~~
d.
if a pilot positioning to his base on a Company jumpseat consistent with the provisions of this paragraph cannot report by showtime due to bump, cancellation, reroute, or delay of his inbound jumpseat, CRS (scheduling) may remove the pilot without pay. If a pilot is removed under this paragraph, he shall be eligible for make-up (and shall not be eligible for substitution). There is no discipline associated with the removal if the pilot followed the parameters described above.
While you state there is no prohibition, the prohibition is implied. You aren't allowed to schedule a jumpseat if you are violating the provisions in the following paragraphs of 26.J.
I personally know the crew member who was a new hire removed from his long haul trip following jumpseating. There were no other circumstances involved. Even if so, why was the senior FO sitting next to him on the same jet removed from his trip for jumpseating into longhaul? What extenuating circumstances did that crewmember have?
I agree the company isn't necessarily out there looking for people who violate this provision. However, doing so only highlights yourself and can/will be used against you when the company needs it to.
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Originally Posted by pinseeker
I can't find that rule anywhere in the CBA or the FOM. Could you provide the section in the FOM or CBA that states this rule?
Yes, 26.J.
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
It's not. Not a restriction. Not an issue. There's no jumpseat police looking to bump people off trips. I'm pretty sure you know that but I'm replying to your post out of convenience. PTB has drawn some conclusions that aren't based in any factual information.
However, if one misses an interrnational trip because they were using a single FX jumpseat to get to work, I wouldn't expect a lot of sympathy from their fleet Captain.
Unless someone lives in a city with multiple FX flights inbound to their domicile that would allow a prudent commute plan with back-ups, using a single FX flight from their home airport is pretty foolish. Expecting management to embrace that plan is equally foolish. A chief pilot at one of those airlines PTB mentions with 95% of their pilots commuting into international trips would agree. Those pax pilots commuting into their trips are expected to follow their company's commuter policy which is going to require AT LEAST one back-up flight, maybe more.
We're fortunate that our commuter policy allows a single FX flight to serve as our one and only way to get to domicile for a trip provided it meets the CBA criteria. Apparently some of our pilots who may have gotten used to that situation flying domestic have come to the mistaken conclusion that such a commute plan should be okay for international ops as well. Trying to use a single flight with no back-ups to commute to an international flight is not a valid plan at FedEx or any other airline. But, there's nothing stopping anyone here from doing it if they are willing to run that risk.
Valid point regarding the major airlines requiring an additional flight -- to any type of flying, long or short haul. But here's the difference. When you look at the RA reserve list for the 777, there will be 20-30 people on reserve (1 or 2 on consolidation or first fly) but there's only like maybe ten 777 departures a night out of Memphis? On the 757 it is ok to jumpseat into your flight because of the shorter duty day, but the 757 probably has five times as many departures a night with just as many sitting reserve. The long haul flights from my experience has more slop time in the schedule when it comes to delays. Whereas in many cities that are served by short haul flights, the timing is critical in meeting FedEx First Overnight deadlines so those flights are listed as high priority yet the company isn't worried about them so much due to jumpseaters missing their flights.
I agree that we are fortunate to be able to use a single aircraft to commute to work. I also think that if you can't get good sleep while jumpseating, you probably shouldn't be jumpseating to work, long haul or short haul. However, I think the 13:30 provision was created for crew rest/fatigue management versus protecting long haul flights. I could be wrong. Anyone know the history behind that language? There's plenty of reserves for the few long haul flights.
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Originally Posted by FlyHIGHgoFAST
"Honest question...Why do you think that will that never happen?"
In my opinion there is too much of the "this is the way it has always been/what are you willing to give up" group who continue to allow the big shiny things to persuade them and leave status quo just that. It is a trend here that guys are happy taking their measly 3% and letting the work rules go down the tube. A majority of our work rules, or lack thereof, show that. Sub, reserve, duty day length during the critical period etc etc etc.... Here is a novel concept, lets negotiate pay raises AND work rule improvements! ::gasp::
Yes, exactly! I'm not trying to persuade someone from coming to FedEx by airing the dirty laundry, although I think those folks should be told what is messed up here. I am posting what absolutely stinks so perhaps those higher up in the union or possibly those in management tasked with "how can FedEx attract top quality recruits in the future" see whats wrong here. If enough of us complain, then maybe these things will get fixed.
Another example of WTF??? The MD-11 pilots use a gym mat, thrown onto the floor, as a crew rest facility. That's not a joke. The pilots on the few MD11s without a sleeper bunk, on long haul flights, have a mattress similar to a gymnasium mat that is laid onto the dirty floor that they sleep on in the courier area of the airplane. How in the world was that ever deemed acceptable?
I know I've stirred the hornets nest. I did it for good reason. Some people will continue to defend how great this place is yada yada and nothing is wrong. Yet, there's plenty that needs to be fixed. Some of our work rules are absolutely ridiculous if not non-existent.
We shouldn't accept this crap because "thank God I don't have to deal with passengers, 3-4 legs a day, being in airports all day long etc.etc." Instead we should be finding ways on improving our work rules so this absolutely can be called the best job in commercial aviation.
I'm sick and tired of ALPA setting future expectations. How many times have you heard someone, even ALPA leadership say "its going to be 2-3 years after this 6-year contract before we get another." NO NO NO NO NO!!! Why are we setting expectations like that? Eff that. That is not acceptable at other airlines and it shouldn't be acceptable here. We should be reminding FedEx management of the amendable date and that we demand a contract within an acceptable time frame. 2-3 years isn't acceptable and we won't stand for it.
We must get united as a crew force now. I am hoping that we hire as many regional bubbas as possible, people who have been screwed over by other managements and know what it feels like and looks like. Nothing against the military pilots as I am one, but many of them don't know what they don't know. We need people willing to stand up and say no instead of folks whose mindset is to get the mission done at all cost. FedEx pilots can't afford another C2015. We can't afford the mindsets of "well we've always done it that way" "what will we have to give up in order to fix that" "it is better than the way we had it at company XYZ/USA/USAF/USN/USMC/USCG" to keep screwing us over. We must unite and fairly demand a contract and work provisions similar to or better than our passenger counterparts. Our job involves higher risks than them and according to the leadership notes on PFC, our crew members continuously step up during critical operations to keep this train on the tracks.