HB, with you being from Eagle, I guess I can see where you stand a little bit. For as bad as we had it at XJT, Eagle got hammered. XJT was slowly bled, while Eagle was blindsided. I saw that happen, and I'm sorry.

But, look what happened. The other AA regionals couldn't shoulder the load and Eagle(Envoy) got rewarded with getting 2 bases back (right? NYC and MIA) and 175s. Plus, they have a flow now. So do the other AA carriers, but you get my point.

Indigo cant shoulder the load of new planes and an IPO without us. Or at least a favorable IPO without us.

The post clearly does NOT say everyone at NK; you obviously did not read it correctly. I also did not see you in the jumpseat or hotel when NK people said they regretted voting yes. Were you hiding somewhere nearby or are you psychic?

Back at you.....

Total different situation. Eagle was a solely owned regional feed of which AA had several to choose from. F9 is one of a few ULCCs in the US with good market share and business model. Greyhound/Megabus of the skies. The best way to make the most $ is to put as many busses into action as possible.

Right now, SW has about 10 flights a day between Denver and about 35 cities. F9 has 2 maybe 3 flights a day to about 10-15 of them. The market is so ripe for the picking now (and in the next 5 years). As the economy gets worse, that just helps F9...

Enough digression. The contract sucks.

The good: The pay is improved. The trip rig is improved. The retirement is improved to 12% increasing to 15% - all company contributions.

The neutral (neither better or worse): The LTD cap is higher but still no own occupation. $75 million ratification is good but falls short of true back pay. Retained 125% over 82 (had to give up something to keep it). 100% deadhead (something even regionals have had for years finally obtained).

The bad: scheduling. And it’s really bad. Losing line bidding for PBS of which the rules haven’t been decided. Positive phone contact being replaced with necessity to call CS back during footprint of trip. Unlimited reassignment during footprint.

The real issue is what we didn’t get (but others have or got recently) like non-cancellation of vacation. And despite the improvement in pay and retirement, it’s still below everyone else except Allegiant. When you figure NKs overrides in, we are bottom of the industry along with the LAST to negotiate.

So in the next 3-5 years, all other carriers go back to negotiating for more leaving us further behind. The major complaint I’ve heard of some is that we are so far behind it was difficult to catch up all in one contract. If we sign in this TA, we will be so far behind at the next negotiation that we’ll be in the same boat as now. And, so on. Always at the bottom - unless you say no and require more. Now is the best time to do that.

I was a reluctant yes voter too, sitting reserve, and not regretting the decision at all. I'm being paid more, my 401k has grown considerably without having to contribute (I do anyways), and I have a far better safety net now with our LTD. There were a few things that I didn't like but overall the package was a vast improvement. The scary 'reassignments' haven't happened yet nor have I heard them happening. I would gladly welcome 2 hours above guarantee to grab a latte while they figure out if they want to use me more. I go to work to make money to pay for the things back home. I couldn't care less where I lay my head at the end of the day so long as my family and our future are being benefited. LAX, EWR, MCO; I couldn't care less the zip code of the hotel that I'm in. We gave our company the flexibility and ability to recover from unusual circumstances and we're paid more money, which this job is all about to me, to do such. I see that as a win-win as I want Spirit to be profitable so that my checks keep cashing.

I have yet to fly with anyone, though I'm sure there are, who regret voting yes. I'm sure some still think a Delta deal was just around the corner but I didn't think so. We are now in a much better position to turn down less than ideal TA's on the next go around as we're all being paid a very livable wage and we all have very good protections. While I'm sure we have the '23%'ers', or whatever the no vote was, there just isn't the hate, anger, disgust, and regret among the ranks that you even remotely describe.

We were in a different position with the TRO hanging over our heads and the Alaska decision from the NMB was very fresh too. The NMB will not support your position to be paid as much as DL/AA/UA or even AK/WN. You're going to have to accept the reality that F9/B6/NK have been placed in a third tier in the eyes of the NMB. With that said, I don't see any reason why you should accept an offer that isn't above B6. We raised the bar with a contract and then B6 leapfrogged us. I cannot fathom any reason why you should't have B6+.

It's tough decision and emotions are very high. I'm afraid if you accept this TA you'll forever cement yourself's as the lowest of the third tier and hamstring NK and B6 on their future CBA's. As someone else already stated, I don't know what I'd do if I was in your position.

I forgot all about the Spirit contract language pertaining to the 2 hour ability to hold you in the event of a reassignment. Wow.

Tell me again how our TA is worse.

Our reassignment language is much better.

If they get held up to 2 hours (a contractual limit btw) they get 2 hours extra pay. If we get held up to our max scheduled duty day (our only contractual limit) we get $0 extra. That’s just one area their contract is better.

Ok, that's fair. But we are only on the hook for 15 minutes and they can be held at the airport for 2 hours.

It’s 2 hr above guarantee.

Then if it goes into their day off it’s 200% above guarantee.

Anytime we are held we get 2 hours, and we can be held until the end of our FDP. I don't like that part, but they can only do this while actively trying to put me on a specific flight, not as airport standby.

b. A pilot rescheduled after his first leg will be paid above
guarantee one (1) minute of flight pay for each two (2)
minutes from the later of original scheduled departure
time of the next flight leg or two (2) hours after block-in,
until either block-out of the next rescheduled flight leg or
release into rest.
c. A pilot who has blocked-in and is scheduled to proceed
to the layover hotel may be required by Crew Scheduling
to remain at the airport after block-in in order to be rescheduled.
In such cases, the pilot will be paid two hours
above guarantee at his regular hourly rate of pay whether
he is rescheduled or not.

What about block or better pay at Spirit? Is their language better than ours?