You are aware that second year pay at Frontier is 108 and captain rates start at $200 an hour, right? And that ALPA just got them a contract with an average of >50% pay increases plus a huge signing bonus?

If you are concerned about ALL pilots helping other pilots, as ALPA does (and will do for free when you join because ALPA doesn’t collect dues until a contract is signed) why are you advocating doing nothing for the industry?

Complaining that ALPA doesn’t help “everyone” while being the largest non union pilot group, who has in their history never helped another group does not make much sense. This from a former SkyWester.

Can't compare majors to regionals. NK is competing with legacies... getting a pay raise that gets them closer to (but still below) their competitors is not a real stretch in this climate.

Regionals compete with other regionals. Pay is determined by market forces (recruiting and attrition) far more than by any union efforts. The business model keeps pay at the bottom of the market, and that obviously varies by market conditions. If you're thinking of making a career at a regional, and you're young, you might be surprised what happens to regional pay when the retirement bubble is in the rear view mirror and there are plenty of hungry noobs willing to sell their souls for turbine time and a shot at the bigs.

Not saying alpa would be a bad idea at SKW, just that you need to manage your expectations. ALPA is a mainline union, and mainline pilots have a vested interest in low-cost feed.

It appears then, I have mis read your post and I apologize.


However, the training environment has changed quite a bit and the level of effort for the student has increased significantly. Not that it's a bad thing. My rub with the whole situation is that at a time when the average experience level is decreasing with the level of incoming pilots, the company has gone in the direction of less ground school and more self teaching. When that level of decreased capability is presented for a check ride the examiner can either accept the lower standard or fail the applicant, which for a fact I know is occurring. I know that the examiners have had their failure rates increase, some to the degree of inviting FAA scrutiny.


So to a point, it has become a bit "adversarial", or what ever term one could use.


Is the training level sufficient? It certainly isn't what it used to be?

Welcome to the internet.

I was simply responding to the other poster who brought up the 'poor' first year pay as ALPAs fault while ignoring the significant gains made at the same properties.

WRT to ALPA being a mainline game, this WHOLE CAREER is a mainline game. I give kudos to those working to make the regional world better, and joining ALPA is the #1 thing a SkyWest Pilot can do to affect the needed change.

SAPA is a management tool to depress pilot wages, rights and career safety. Fire management. Fire SAPA.

That’s a good point about expectations. No union is going to automatically give you everything you ever wished for. And it is true that market forces determines a large part in pay. But this is true at ALL airlines, not just regionals. And if it wasn’t for unions, when market forces are in favor of pilots, pay wouldn’t go up as much like it has recently with RAH, Endeavor’s bonuses being converted to pay rates, increases at PSA. Instead you would have very small incremental increases, the 1-2% kind you see at Skywest for example.

I know I’ve repeated this many many times, but ALPA is more than just having a contract and having legal representation with management, FAA, TSA, NTSB, etc. I’ll reiterate that the safety, security, pilot assistance advocacy is a large part of it.

I generally concur. Unions help smooth out the market swings and lock in gains, most especially at the majors. The majors must generally declare BK (or be in obvious danger of that) to roll back gains. But the regional system can roll back gains fairly quickly when market conditions permit... they just rebid your flying to someone else. Nobody else wants to bid low enough? If the pilot market is in their favor, they'll just start up a new regional, maybe even an alter-ego to tap experienced scumbags from an existing entity.

Certainly worth considering. I like it.

he is still in the training department

You seem to be worried about what to expect as far as dress code and PPM issues. Shoot me a PM, we’ll exchange numbers, and I’ll answer all the questions you could possibly have about these issues. Hope this helps.

First of all, the term "regional airline" is utterly inaccurate! Regional airlines as they want one to think, is merely a "B Scale" airline assigned to fly the colors of a major carrier. These regional jets are not Metroliners, Beech 1900s or Brasilias!

They are flying North America including, Canada and the Caribbean as well as Mexico and even Central America originating from US Hubs. They have 3 and 1/2 hour ranges and a first class cabin. Huge difference from the days of essential air service from SLC to Vernal, Utah!

Finally, pilots aren't a dime a dozen anymore, so this notion that "regional pilots" should accept substandard wages, training environment, work rules, contract, 401K, etc., for their labors is unfounded! I believe the days of fok!ng over regionals pilots, I mean B scale pilots is coming to an end.