Envoy 2020

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Quote: So can we admit now that the 19 hour LOA agreement was a mistake? I mean come on, why in the hell did we even attempt to work with management? They have closed QT, canceled our training freezes, canceled upgrades for those awarded, "forgot" to mention to the schedulers about zero time lines and now have apparantly ceased all communication with our MEC.

Why do our MEC's always think the company is going to do the right thing? I just dont get it. They need to fight for every single inch and never assume that the company will honor anything, nor help us out in anyway shape or form that doesn't also benefit them. We should have thrown that stupid 19 hour LOA right across the table and walked out. Let them figure out how to save the company and come back with an industry neutral deal.

So frustrating. This is how it feels.
https://youtu.be/gk8NlRIZPIo
What are you talking about?
What was the company supposed to "honor" after the LOA?
You make it sound like company made some promises to us if we ratify it. Just FYI: There were no promises given, or expected.
Quote: What are you talking about?
What was the company supposed to "honor" after the LOA?
You make it sound like company made some promises to us if we ratify it. Just FYI: There were no promises given, or expected.
Of that entire post you chose one word to point out. Think that means I’m onto something. The second paragraph was an all encompassing one, not “just” about this LOA.

We are all clearly aware there were no promises given on this LOA, but it did do exactly what I said it would do and that is stop them from negotiating for the rest of us. As predicted they are doing just that, with the added kick to the groin of shutting down our lock pay, qt and the rest I mentioned.
Quote: Of that entire post you chose one word to point out. Think that means I’m onto something. The second paragraph was an all encompassing one, not “just” about this LOA.

We are all clearly aware there were no promises given on this LOA, but it did do exactly what I said it would do and that is stop them from negotiating for the rest of us. As predicted they are doing just that, with the added kick to the groin of shutting down our lock pay, qt and the rest I mentioned.
No you're not. You're just making stuff up in your head.

I think the status quo is not a bad place to be right now for the rest of us. Let's see what round 2 brings.

Even without the LOA, there would be no QT, no training freezes, and no CA pay for FOs. Just FYI.
Quote: I think the status quo is not a bad place to be right now for the rest of us. Let's see what round 2 brings.
Round 2? Didn’t you all just say they won’t even communicate right now?
Quote: So can we admit now that the 19 hour LOA agreement was a mistake? I mean come on, why in the hell did we even attempt to work with management? They have closed QT, canceled our training freezes, canceled upgrades for those awarded, "forgot" to mention to the schedulers about zero time lines and now have apparantly ceased all communication with our MEC.

Why do our MEC's always think the company is going to do the right thing? I just dont get it. They need to fight for every single inch and never assume that the company will honor anything, nor help us out in anyway shape or form that doesn't also benefit them. We should have thrown that stupid 19 hour LOA right across the table and walked out. Let them figure out how to save the company and come back with an industry neutral deal.

So frustrating. This is how it feels.
https://youtu.be/gk8NlRIZPIo
The ironic part is, those jokers were telling us in the conference calls, the LOA, “wont cost us anything.” They seemed to forget about leverage.
Quote: No you're not. You're just making stuff up in your head.

I think the status quo is not a bad place to be right now for the rest of us. Let's see what round 2 brings.

Even without the LOA, there would be no QT, no training freezes, and no CA pay for FOs. Just FYI.
Explain what I “made up”?

Status quo is great if you don’t mind exposing your family to higher risks of getting sick. Or if you can afford to live off less than minimum wage with the 19 hour deal.

I agree there wouldn’t be those things, but they would also still be negotiating for a better deal than 19 hours that would serve your entire pilot group, not just a sub section of them.
Quote: Round 2? Didn’t you all just say they won’t even communicate right now?
The fact that you think they have enough takers for this CSLOA just shows your ignorance on what's going on. There will be round 2. If not, then we won.
Quote: The ironic part is, those jokers were telling us in the conference calls, the LOA, “wont cost us anything.” They seemed to forget about leverage.
Exactly. They really were hung up on that part but failed to realize the obvious.
Quote: Explain what I “made up”?

Status quo is great if you don’t mind exposing your family to higher risks of getting sick. Or if you can afford to live off less than minimum wage with the 19 hour deal.

I agree there wouldn’t be those things, but they would also still be negotiating for a better deal than 19 hours that would serve your entire pilot group, not just a sub section of them.
You just do you, ok. You do you. There's no point to argue with you because you have already made up your mind. It's just a shame you don't have any real information to support that.
Quote: The fact that you think they have enough takers for this CSLOA just shows your ignorance on what's going on. There will be round 2. If not, then we won.
Why doesn’t the union come out and tell us how many took it then so we can all rest easy knowing another round is coming, from a managment team that currently isn’t communicating.

Dera I know this is personal for you so I am going to walk away. I have stated my opinion many times and made it clear the company would behave just the way they have.

Time will tell and I sincerely hope I can come back on here sooner rather than later and admit how wrong I was.
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