That might be a legit reason they don't require it... They're already having problems retaining people there.

If your fleet flies to a destination country that requires the vaccine then I believe that it’ll be required for that fleet. It would make it hard on the operation having 2 groups of pilots, one that can fly to all destinations and one that cannot. If we go the route of having separate groups then they’ll have to hire more and they don’t want that.

Another option is you’ll be removed from the trip without pay, because it’s your choice whether to get vaccinated, so your choice made you ineligible to fly it. That’s not their problem, so no pay for you.

They’ll mandate it to avoid all that mess.

You mean like how some of us have been covering for people that don't have a China visa for the last 15 months? Or how we've been covering for people that have a CPAP and can't go to Australia?

It's amazing to me how much some pilots are willing to throw other pilots under the bus. Stop trying to justify mandates where there is no need.

So, your belief is that it is the fault of the pilots without China visas that they don't have China visas? Or that guys who have the medical condition of OSA are intentionally doing it?

What about those who have had Covid and recovered? Many countries accept that in lue of vaccination status. It appears to be an argument between being vax’ed and unvax’ed, with zero consideration to those that have had it. What say you ALPA?

We have a group of pilots who have made no attempt to get a China visa and internationally bid trips with China layovers. Works out nicely for them, screws their buddy though.

Did I say that? I was merely responding to the idea that it's unfathomable to have "two groups of pilots" by pointing out that we've been doing it for a long time already.

I'll also add that even in the case of the pilots that have chosen to not get a China visa, I don't blame them! Just like I don't blame pilots that do or do not get COVID tested. Personal choice is important, but it's become very popular lately to steamroll our colleagues into compliance.

Choosing not to even attempt to renew a credential required for one's current seat isn't the same thing as opting out of a voluntary Covid test. Not even the same ball park. The FOM and CBA are very clear on our responsibilities regarding visas and other required documents. Choosing not to comply and then bidding for trips that require those credentials is not defensible, IMO. It's a slimeball move by someone hoping to be grouped in with those pilots who attempted to renew and haven't received new docs yet. Explain to me how that comports with the ALPA code of ethics? Their actions won't stand up to even a basic level of scrutiny. Submitting for renewal, then having delays beyond one's control and being pay protected is not the same thing as what these pilots are doing.

If everyone accepts that then the company will probably accept it. The doctors I've spoken with say natural immunity lasts for 3-6 months, so part of this would also depend on what the company's medical experts AND the host nation's medical experts say. I get it that you'll probably throw out some argument of what you read online somewhere that fits the narrative you want, but what will really matter is what the host nation says. More than likely it'll be much easier to track a current vaccination status than sifting through everyone's medical records from 300 different countries to determine natural immunity as defined by the host country's medical experts. It's highly likely they'll just require proof of vaccination... When that happens you either have it and are useful as a pilot or you can't fly to those countries and are worthless to FedEx.