Rock

Google is a wonderful thing. You can read the report yourself if you like. I did. I prefer reading actual source documents to media summaries. It’s incredible what you learn when you don’t rely on some reporter telling you what they think. Here’s a link to the study. You’re correct. It isn’t peer reviewed yet. But that’s a matter of time as the study was conducted by one of the largest Heath groups in Israel in coordination with the University of Tel Aviv. What will you say when it is?

Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections

Here is the part where they list the numbers involved in the study.

Overall, 673,676 MHS members 16 years and older were eligible for the study group of fully vaccinated SARS-CoV-2-naïve individuals; 62,883 were eligible for the study group of unvaccinated previously infected individuals and 42,099 individuals were eligible for the study group of previously infected and single-dose vaccinees.

So about 25,000 shy of 800,000. Here is the part where they report vaccinated are 27 times more likely to have symptomatic COVID than naturally recovered.

“Symptoms for all analyses were recorded in the central database within 5 days of the positive RT-PCR test for 90% of the patients, and included chiefly fever, cough, breathing difficulties, diarrhea, loss of taste or smell, myalgia, weakness, headache and sore throat. After adjusting for comorbidities, we found a 27.02-fold risk (95% CI, 12.7 to 57.5) for symptomatic breakthrough infection as opposed to symptomatic reinfection (P<0.001) (Table 2b). None of the covariates were significant, except for age ≥60 years.”


Regarding the additional protection to COVID recovered people getting a vaccine, it was a .5 fold increase in protection. Out of 14,000 naturally immune people in their study, 16 people who were also vaccinated got symptomatic COVID, and 23 people who weren’t vaccinated got symptomatic COVID.

Regarding your last comment, I think people don’t understand that there is a difference between a coronavirus and things like polio and mumps or measles. Coronaviruses evolve rapidly. That’s why the COVID vaccines developed using the Wuhan variant aren’t nearly as effective against the new variants. It’s also why there is no vaccine for the common cold. Meanwhile, measles and polio don’t change much at all, if ever. That’s why you don’t have to get a measles shot every year. Measles is very prevalent throughout the world. But you don’t need a measles booster shot when you travel because you are vaccinated, and the original vaccine you got is still effective because the measles virus doesn’t mutate. Now do COVID. Completely different, and in less than a year after pushing out a COVID “vaccine”, the CDC is now considering recommending a booster every 5 months.

Rock

Which country we fly to currently requires us to get the vaccine? I don’t know what the status of Canada is, but it might be the only one. Almost every country we fly to is just fine with a negative COVID test, and many don’t care about your vaccine status one way or the other. In fact, our own CDC doesn’t doesn’t care about your vaccine status to get back into this county. You know what it does accept…a COVID recovery statement.
As for memes etc., my contribution to this thread is a scientific study that clearly indicates natural immunity to COVID is better than vaccine induced immunity. It matches early studies that say the same thing. Last time I had COVID it had much less impact than a mild cold. But that doesn’t make me special. That makes me part of the vast majority of people who get COVID. Having said that, I have no problem with anyone getting the vaccine if they want. It really makes sense for fat, unhealthy old people. Easier to get the shot than hit the gym.

Rock

The latest data on the Pfizer vaccine specifically is that it is less than 40% effective at preventing infection from the delta variant of COVID.
But we are talking about FedEx here. For FedEx, cases matter a lot. The last time I popped positive I got the news while I was working out. I never had significant symptoms. But because I was positive, I was pulled from a 90 hour trip. Fortunately, I hadn’t been in close contact with any other FedEx pilots before testing positive, but if I had, they would have been pulled from their trips. The person who popped positive next to me in the AOC resulted in at least three other pilots being removed from trips. I’m sure they are all fine, but the ripple effect at FedEx is huge. So cases matter a lot to FedEx.
Finally, my whole point on this is that mandating vaccines for people who have already had COVID is unnecessary. It’s very easy to determine who has already had COVID. Like me, they have a document showing a positive COVID test. That document works everywhere I’ve showed it. In much of the world, proof of COVID recovery is counted the same as a vaccine certificate. The company definitely knows who has tested positive. And that number is growing every day. It’s something that needs to be added to the discussion, because if the latest data coming from Israel turns out to be true, the average FedEx pilot is 13 times more likely to be exposed to COVID from a vaccinated pilot than a previously recovered pilot.

Globemaster2827

Yes... You are quite the scientist. You ought to run for Surgeon General.... Most countries don't require it yet. It may surprise you to hear that things are changing every day. A month ago no airline required the vaccine. A week ago the vaccine was not fully FDA approved. A few days ago Delta charged their vaccinated and unvaccinated pilots the same rate.

The point is that the restrictions are coming and the rules will even apply to fully vetted internet scientists such as yourself.

pinseeker

Thanks for linking the report. Still wondering why you linked a news article and then complain when what you state wasn't in your original link. Reading the report, I didn't get the same impression as you. This report was just a numbers crunch on data collected and was not a controlled study. I also noticed that there were 11 times as many vaccinated participants as there were previously infected participants. Of those that got infected or reinfected, a mere 0.03% of the total participants, there were 12 times as many vaccinated people who go infected as those who got reinfected. So, there were 11 times as many people and 12 times as many infections. Not a big difference in my book. Also, only 0.035% of the vaccinated got infected at all while 100% of those people who were reinfected had COVID at least once and 0.03% of those got it a second time. Of the group that had symptoms, 9 were hospitalized. Of that 9, 8 were vaccinated and 1 was a reinfection. So, 8 vaccinated people out of over 670,000 people were hospitalized while 1 out of 62,000 people who had gotten COVID before were hospitalized. Again, not convincing in my book that getting COVID is better than getting the vaccine and likely not getting COVID. That report showed that 99.96% of the vaccinated people did not get COVID, even the Delta variant. Nice try though!

I don't really care if someone chooses not to get vaccinated. I is their choice. Just don't expect me to support benefits for your choice. Choices have consequences, some good, some bad.

Rock

You are correct. Things are changing everyday. Just a few months ago we were told the vaccine was 97% effective at preventing COVID infection. That turned out to be false. Then we were told it would be effective for at least a year. That turned out to be false. Then we were told that once a country hit 70% vaccinated it would have herd immunity. That turned out to be false. Now you’re telling me the whole world is going to require everyone to be vaccinated. Just this week Denmark decided to get rid of all COVID restrictions. No passports. No nothing. So I’ll note your sage predictions of what is going to happen in the future. But unless you are a clairvoyant scientist, I’ll bet your predictions are about as useful as all the others.

Rock

This was the conclusion of the team of highly qualified doctors and scientists who conducted the study.

Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.

They disagree with your assessment. And I’m not sure what you mean in your last sentence. What benefits?

FXLAX

Is herd immunity something we need for COVID when the vast majority of people vaccinated and or previously infected are not hospitalized or die when contracting it (along with those young and or healthy people who haven’t been vaccinated or previously contracted it)?

We don’t have herd immunity for influenza and no one seems to worry about that because the vast majority of people are not hospitalized or die from it.

JustAGuy

Herd immunity saves the lives of those people who are allergic to the contents of vaccines and who are therefore, unable to take vaccines.

JustAGuy

Herd immunity saves the llives of those people who are allergic to the contents of vaccines.