What I find funny is how you constantly hear on the line we need a National Seniority list. DOH is the only fair way to integrate seniority, and then you get to the "Merger Show" and nobody is interested in DOH. Career expectations is the only fair way to go, that is all you hear when it comes down to it. Unfortunately these pilot's won't be able to agree and if Management really wants to make this Merger happen Arbitration and we see what happened at US Air. Good Luck to all regardless of what happens.

Thanks for posting those links. Some pretty interesting stuff in there. You'll notice a huge block of routes with an effective date of 911018. Those are the routes that came from Pan Am.

I was off the mark a bit earlier. Delta got "what was left" in 91, not just europe. Pan Am sold the Heathrow and beyond operation to United in 89-90 timeframe. Of course, you guys got all the Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan route authority you'll ever need.

That list is a pretty good illustration of why your management (not your pilots) want NWA. Three and a half pages of Pacific route authorites vs. maybe a third of a page for DAL. That is why I expect (not hope) that this merger will happen despite the wishes of the pilot groups. I think the guys that are saying "let's just build our own pacific network" have a completely unrealistic picture of what it would take to do that.

Well, It's been a week now and no agreement on SLI....I think it will be called off or forced to Arbitration soon. Wall Street wants a Deal, the stocks for both companies took a dive yesterday. The latest from the Star & Sickle and CNBC:

http://www.startribune.com/business/16058672.html

http://www.cnbc.com/id/23239727/for/cnbc/

So why can't we do the same thing with Singapore or China? Who says that if you don't fly thru Japan you won't make it? I spent 10 years living in Singapore. Trust me, if they think that letting Delta do there what NWA does at Tokyo and they can make money off of it, they will fall all over themselves to make it happen.

for the delta guys that are worried about the parking of the dc9, what does delta's scope say about airplanes bigger than 50 seats. I think nwa would be locked at the 72 between mesaba and compass if they continue to get rid of the 9's. the ratio in there scope clause.

Just heard from a buddy who said his F/O at VirginAmerica was leaving for NWA as a new-hire. My buddy was incredilous: "You're going to the bottom of the seniority list at a newly merged airline?"

His F/O's response: "Well, in the interview, they said they weren't going to furlough." (He'd be a CA on the A320 in 1 year at VirginA)

I almost busted a gasket laughing. It'll be a bloodbath.

All of these arguments about NWA deficiencies are really quite mute. (plus, as if DAL didn't have an aging md-88 fleet with some of their 767s gettting a bit on the older side.) But nonetheless all of these issues you speak of do you not think they were not well thought out before by Lee Moak and Richard Anderson and company before they came to us? Anderson knows every detail about NWA which is why he wants to merge with us. Beside the pacific we have one of the lowest cost structure with 4B plus in the bank. DAL other merger choice is UAL. UAL has a lot more debt, less cash in the bank, and a much younger seniority list. PLease take a hard look at how your list would match up with theirs, not good. Further, a company that large would probably be forced to divest assests, meaning junior pilots on both sides hit the streets. In fact, standing alone is probably DAL best short term option. Long term you guys are acting like you're about to go into extended expansion mode. Are you kidding? Have you not been listening to various reports on the economy? Long term argument, even been made by my DAL friend hired in jul '97 who is for the merger, is the immediate world wide presence and the stability of being employed by the largest airline.

Like I said in a previous post that our merger team left NY and haven't been back. They did not take the deal the DAL mec wanted them to take back to our MEC to vote on as it was supposedly so bad, that get this, our entire merger committe (senior and junior) balked at it as ridiculous. The DAL mec hasn't budged off of their position and our MEC has officially put out an offer to defer to arbitration. No further talks are scheduled.

Delta, Northwest pilots haven't met since Feb 21: report

By Christopher Hinton
Last update: 9:19 a.m. EST Feb. 28, 2008Print RSS Disable Live Quotes

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- It's been a week since pilots from Delta Air Lines
and NWA 14.84, -0.26, -1.7%) have met to discuss how to integrate each others' seniority lists in the event of a merger, the Associated Press said Thursday, countering any assumption that talks were ongoing. Representatives from the carriers' pilot unions last met Feb. 21, and as widely reported, seniority was a huge obstacle in the talks, the AP said, citing a person familiar with the matter. It's not clear if the two sides will meet again. Seniority lists assign an order for pilots to determine who gets to fly higher-paying large aircraft and choice routes. Though pilots can't block a merger, they can make consolidation difficult if left unsatisfied. Delta shares fell 5.7% Wednesday to $15, and Northwest shares were off 5.7% to $15.10. Commun

Opus,
I don't think they are "mute" as a matter of of fact I wouldn't even say they are moot. You are correct about the M-88 fleet but wrong about the 767 fleet. The -88's are getting old - but we could replace them over 5-10 years, none are currently being taken out of service today which is the difference between them and your DC-9s. Is your fleet getting smaller or not this year? We have already parked/sold our 767-200's and only have -300's, 400's, and ER's. This is the problem - we have already lived through our fleet shrinkage over the last 5 years and are now finally starting to grow. It appears NW is just getting around to parking a lot of arirframes with some possible healthy airframe orders. Why would we as a pilot group want to lose seniority by merging with NW when we are hiring 70-100 a month. You guys have some good orders - these aircraft are not paid for so couldn't Delta also order more aircraft? Your friend might be for this merger but the vast majority of Delta pilots want nothing to do with it. Hopefully it will all blow over anyway but if it does go through and goes to arbitration it will be a diaster ala US Air. How will the NW guys like working for Delta but receiving a 15-20% less paycheck then the Delta pilots for years as this is fought out. Not to mention the loss of equity stake for all pilots. We will all be better off alone - the demographics of the two pilot groups are too dissimilar and both groups think they will lose too much so it would be ugly and protracted which would suck for all of us.
Scoop

Scoop,

Please excuse my spelling, (I was educated in the public school system). For the record I am not for this merger. I don't want it either. I would much rather merge with CO or stand alone. I do not wish to be insulting but I just do not see the great future at DAL that you guys do. Before you start throwing mud let me explain. You had an anomalous ?sp purge of your seniority list, which probably won't happen at any other airline for the forseeable future if ever, I realize that you are backfilling with new hires and opportunities are great there right now for the junior pilots which, I believe, has caused an oversense of optimism. Let's be honest, histoically at every major, it generally takes ten years or so to become a widebody FO or narrowbody captain. What is happening at DAL is great, all for it, all I am saying is don't expect this to continue. With zero attrition things are going to plug up sooner than you think. As for ordering the airplanes away from NWA or anybody else, it doesn't work that way. Stand in line for the 787 or any airbus and you will not be seeing an airframe until 2014.

So, by not responding to the UAL factor I take you agree that DAL/UAL would not be in DAL's best interest?

I have read post after post about how NWA would be a liability to DAL. On our boards we are posting the opposite.

-we have less debt and more cash in the bank than DAL.
-we have more aircraft on order and 1000 plus pilots hitting the streets over the next five years and it continues at a steady rate until 2020. DAL zero until 2013.
-We do not want to go through the rest of our careers being thought of as the red headed step child.

DAL approached NWA not the other way around but as one reads the above post one would think that it is the NWA pilots are the ones coming hat in hand.

why cal over delta?