Based on my observation of this rather poorly shot video, it appears the FO or the FP failed to make the necessary rudder input to straighten out the nose of the aircraft over the center of the runway. When you center the nose by making the rudder input in a very strong crosswind, you also have to make a fine adjustment with your stick against the wind or your upwind wing will rise resulting in a severe drift away from the direction of the wind. If you are very close to the runway, obviously you may not be able to perform the one wing low movement, but at least you should level the wings by neutralizing the stick. The FP of Lufthansa failed to do this.

This is what I think happened. The FP failed to center the nose over the runway center and the aircraft started to drift to the right, then he initiated his rudder input on the rightside of the runway centerline. When he finally got around to center the nose, he failed to compensate with his stick, which resulted in a right wing to rise causing the left wing to drop left and drift left, which resulted in a left wing tip strike.

Wheels on this thread go round and round pmsl !


I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather ,not screaming like the pax on his plane .

I couldn't agree more!

I have a question. I assume you fly the 320. I was told by a United 320 IP that he teaches the xwind technique in the 320 like this:

Crab until 50 feet or so and then straighten the nose with rudder, leave the stick alone. He says the flight computer knows the aircraft is starting to drift and will automatically lower the upwind wing to correct for the drift. I don't fly the bus but I was wondering if anyone out there can confirm the bus will react that way.

I don't know why people make such a big deal out of landing on a crab. All these airplanes are designed to withstand the side load. That Airbus saw more sideloading from the botched attempt to kick the crab out at the end game (wingtip strike no less) than if they had just landed the thing in the crab, gone for coffee and then kick out to centerline. Seems like spending 2 dollars (wing strike) to save 50 cents (a couple cycles of tire life).

In the T-38 we would do this by the book. Yeah you could tell after a half dozen crosswind landings that the tires were about done, so there is merit in minimizing tire contact while tracking centerline in a crab. As you got better you were able to kick the nose out right as the tires where touching and it looked pretty, but again, you're splitting hairs at that point as far as tire wear is concerned.

Somebody mentioned the Buff, and I fly the old dirty thing. Yeah we have a crosswing crab system, but it's not an exact science, the math is done on the fly and tower's winds are a snapshot at best. The reality is that Boeing built the thing so we could land the whale even if the system was inop. Now in real world we don't exercise max crosswind component if this were to happen, but by the book you could (wouldn't be pretty tough). Operationally you could right about disregard 15knts of direct crosswind and the thing won't complain landing with susbtantial side loading on the trucks. Of course it is the most non-standard airplane to fly when it comes to aerodynamics in all phases of flight so not much can be compared to it, but it does stand to say that too much is being made of landing that 320 on a crab, which would have been a better alternative than botching the de-crab so miserably.

Ah, but how much side load will the passengers withstand?

Landing in a crab, unless made totally necessary by the POH of a specific AC, is just lazy and in poor form. Having flown over 60 different types of airplanes I never depended on the manufacturer to make up for my lack of airmenship with beefier undercarriage. On exception comes to mind; the Ercoupe.

Designed to compensate for proper pilot skills.

Have you read any of my posts? If you would have read any of my prior posts you would have seen that you have just repeated what I said. You would have also read that I understand the physics lesson you so kindly gave me. I have stated that what I have said is for my company and my fleet on several occasions. I have mentioned 3 methods all of which may be named differently then what you call them but have stated your points.

The wing low method you describe is what we call the side-slip method. We apply it just prior to the flare at about 50 feet. If you are flying the plane at V approach and not Vref then no extra power is required. I agree with you that if you put the side-slip in at 100' then extra power maybe required. When I said I had never seen anyone fly an approach in a slide-slip I was refering to the actual approach not the transition from the approach to the flare. The side-slip technique is the most popular based on what I have observed, but as stated we apply it just prior to the flare and not while flying the approach.

The de-crab method as I described before is different from the side-slip method because it is applied in the flare not the transisition and it is designed to land on both main gears not one thus alowing spoilers to deploy rapidly and prevent pod and wing tip strikes. We have already discussed the pros and cons of each so please refer to prior posts for more info.

The landing in a crab method has also been discussed by several other members here. It is by far the least popular technique, but allowed by my fleet at my company. It is not recommended on dry runways and is really only there to take the workload off the pilot so he can concentrate on the rollout.
You should read peoples posts before you post............. This is not my first rodeo.

Yes, I agree....... I stated in my posts before that this is what my company and my fleet calls them. In my first several posts I had avoided calling each method by a name in fear that every pilot with his own name would start critiquing. As you can see that is what happened.

As you can see adlerdriver chimed in and didn't even read my original posts. He thinks he is adding to the discussion and proving me wrong when all he has done is waste my time and yours.