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Originally Posted by HSLD
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Regarding the flight time rules, the UA TA is FAR 117 compliant, the DAL PWA may not be in some areas (rumor alert). I'm not an expert on the DAL contract but I'd like to hear more about it from someone who is regarding FAR 117. FAR 117 goes into effect Q3 2013, however should the UA TA pass my understanding is that UA will be operating in compliance with the new rules as of date of signing.
My experience with 2 leg, 9+ hour flight time days was on the DC-10 flying Hawaii turns out of SFO. Having the FE onboard made it legal for 2 pilots to fly over 8 hours, and those are actually still the existing rules. In hindsight as long as you could plan the rest prior to the one day Hawaii turns weren't bad. In fact, one day trips off the west coast were the last time I had 21-22 day-off lines.
Under FAR 117 the ability to fly Transcon turns, or something like JFK-SFO-ORD (unaugmented), becomes possible. Every pilot needs to determine their fitness to fly and to operate a flight based on all factors. However, given the option and adequate safety margins I'll take the more efficient schedule any day.
Sorry for going off topic, I guess this more of a FAR 117 discussion.
Thanks for the reply...
I've posted this question to the Delta Pilot group and what I've learned is what you posted.
So, basically.. As of Dec 2013, UAL will be allowed to do this. Delta will not. If DAL wants to, they will have to agree to an LOA.
On the UAL Side.. there are certain items of the TA that don't even come into play until the 9th bid month. The company has been pretty smart in the way they plan to implement this TA.
For Summer of 2013, they will still be allowed to build 12 day off lines paying 90 hours but scheduled to 75 hours.
Now as the 5 hr credit per day for biding starts, we're in the slow period. Fast forward a few months and as we start getting alittle busier.. we allow for 9 hr 2 man crew.
We are giving the company a semi blank check.
Just my opinion based on what I read in the TA and the (few) answered I've gotten from my union.
Motch
PS> I agree, the idea of 2 man flying 9 hrs is (in itself) not the worst thing in the world.. but you mentioned an FE onboard. While it was legally a 2 pilot operation, you had a third crewmember on board. So I (imagine) there may have been times that someone "napped".