SUX4U

As I am not at UA but would like to be someday I have serious interest in what this new TA could mean for a future there. You do make some good points, but the way you constantly talk down to people really discredits your views to the point I almost skim past them. Just food for thought when you are attempting to possibly sway people at UA to side with you on the vote...

uaav8r

You are absolutely correct Chris. Problem is that while we are on the bad side of the "whipsaw" there are several thousand UCH pilots that are on the good side of the same whipsaw. Yes, I know...we're taking over IAH 756 flying...sure. Hell If I were a CAL guy I wouldn't want to have an ISL with us either!!! But I'm not. We (UAL) need an ISL ASAP!

uaav8r

I'm gonna have to agree with the cactus patch kid on this Sunvox.

ChrisJT6

Agree...and what I say to my longtime CAL buds that admit their current high ground; do the right thing as Karma can be a tough way to learn. Make peace or fuel an enemy...is it worth a few spots on a 12000 spot ISL knowing deep down youre Fred's boy. I agree w all the con lists but they all ignore this reality which is THE major battle w mgmt.

intrepidcv11

You know what I'm tired of hearing how the CAL side is full of happy campers because of one bid. The metal we have arriving now was supposed to come 4 years ago. The movement we have coming was happening 5 years ago before our Warlus MEC Chair pulled the rug on Age 60. The growth is not simply this because Jeff hates the UAL side more.

If you want to keep playing the doom and gloom card fine, but guess what we WANT an ISL too! Many of us would like to get this POS airline and POS pilot union moving forward. Will we accept the concessions this TA offers for the next 5-6 years to get it, no. Ah I'm wasting my time. Off to drool at all the prime UAL red eyes I get to fly in the middle of multiple 4 days next month.

uaav8r

I understand that your new aircraft were ordered a long time ago and that you guys have actually had significant movement over the last decade. That's great news for Continental pilots. Hell, if I were a CAL pilot, I wouldn't want any part of an ISL with UAL pilots. But i'm not a CAL pilot. As for "doom and gloom", well that's pretty much been the career description of most UAL pilots since september 2001. An entire decade of pure stagnation and regression. Not your fault, but something I'm sure your side is well aware of.

ChrisJT6

Not interested debating the history behind how this whipsaw reality came about any more than you want to continue to deny it. No doubt many CAL pilots don't like as many things in this TA as do UAL pilots, but with max movement on your side it is considerably easier to live longer under your current contract. If becoming a single union was as important, you would most likely agree on the priority and long term value of a unified pilot group.
Are you seriously going to continue denying the whipsaw is the most common union busting tool and our current reality?
We just simply disagree that any issue in this TA is bigger than being a divided union...I would rather loose than be Mgmt pawns.
Oh yeah, I know many of a certain 1437 group who i am sure feel so bad for you having to fly a redeye...unbelievable whining. We also were hiring until Glenn found a partner in Jeff.

Sunvox

Yes, you are 100% right and I need to slow down. The problem is I only have a week to strike up a true conversation, and folks here seem adamant in their opinions with no show of facts and that is driving me to overwhelming frustration, but thank-you for taking time to notice.
Problem is I only have 10 minutes per day to answer 100 posts most of which are grossly uniformed or swayed by false logic. The best example of this is scope. The naysayers are making HUGE assumptions regarding the profitablity of 50 seaters, the definition of 76 seaters, and the availability of 70 seaters none of which have any basis in reality, but that is not being debated. It's the same principle of national politics. Our nation is facing massive debt which could never be solved by raising taxes so some cut in benefits is necessary whether it be means testing or raising age limits but that is never discussed and the result will be increasing debt resulting in sudden devaluation of the dollar via a spike in interest on the 10 yr bond, but that is so far above the general public's knowledge that it's sad and the same appears to be true with this contract.

All of that was a complex way of saying "Thank-you".

Joe

Coach67

Many of us "Nay sayers" have the same facts but disgree with your position and/or understanding of them. Just because we disagree with your positions doesn't make us less informed, or making "huge assumptions" that are more erroneous.

Maybe your frustrations are because you aren't swaying "Nay sayers" opinions with your debate. I remedy this frustration on my end by not attempting to sway people to my way of thinking. Just debate the issues and be calm in your own YES vote and let others be calm in their NO vote. Using this method has reduced my frustrations exponentially.

Our nation's debt and tax increases have nothing to do with the JCBA TA. I don't get frustrated with my republican neighbors either when they don't think like I think regarding politics .

SUX4U

I can completely understand how frustrating this whole thing can be! Hell like I said I am not even on property and it is stressful to me. I think coach67 is spot on with the point he made of calmly debate the facts that you find and believe in and not sweat trying to educate those that have different view points.

For those of us that are outside looking in and uncertain of how beneficial or detrimental this TA is going to be for the future, I appreciate those that come with well thought out facts for the no and yes voters.