Nevjets

Nope, never said that. Just making the point that management is not hands off when it comes to their work groups possibly unionizing. As been shown here from other posters, management persuades new hires and continues to do so on the website. Along with federal injunctions against them when acting against rules during organizing campaigns. If it wasn’t for the deep pockets of ALPA, Skywest management would have never seen the inside of a court room, let alone and federal injunction placed on them.


So, you are strictly a shareholder. I completely understand your position. It’s as rational as pilots being in a union. Management has a fiduciary to you, the shareholder. So it only makes sense that someone also has the pilot’s fiduciary responsibility to represent their best interests. As it is now, if there was another DD incident, that pilot would also have to spend more than $100k after being fired in order to get his job back. Almost everyone would not have the ability to fight an unjust firing like he did, UNLESS there was a union that represented them and kept them from being unjustly fired to begin with.

To answer your last question, I honestly believe that ALPA brings a whole lot more than a contract and representation. We all know that the RLA is stacked against pilots. But the best thing about ALPA, the RLA cannot do anything about, advocating for safety, security, and pilot assistance.

Nevjets

Typically things don’t become contentious unless there has been foot dragging for years on a contract negotiation. Skywest management has had over ten years learning how to do business with unions. Both the ASA and XJT MECs enjoyed favorable relationships with management, more so on the XJT side. But it was never contentious or bitter despite the vast differences in opinions.

My guess is that there will be a honeymoon period before some foot dragging. Just like it was when JetBlue and Virgin first unionized, after some foot dragging and union publicly complaining, both sides come to some kind of mutual agreement.

mercys ghost

Is there any hard data out there on how many jobs have been saved from unjust termination by having assistance from union representation?

word302

You assume a union would keep all those things from happening.

Check Complete

I think the answer to that question is probably nobody really knows? But you probably know that too? It would stand to reason that if a pilot was to be terminated by the company and had real legal counsel representation there would be far less company attempts.

Think about it, the company can do just about anything it wants because it knows there's about one in a thousand people like DD that is going to fight back. What about the guy that got terminated because it was suspected that he was intoxicated? The local authorities dropped all the charges. Made the headlines and he was terminated. Employee review was to be reinstated but was still terminated. Had no legal ability to fight back and his career is ruined. Of course nobody will ever know, but I think just the threat of available dedicated legal counsel, he'd probably still be here?

What about his rights just so the company can say they fired the suspected culprit? Bottom line is that pilots are getting terminated for mistakes and yes some of the mistakes are bad. A dedicated counsel may just be able to negotiate some retraining instead of termination?

What about the resent disaster for the JB pilots accused of their crimes? What would they be able to protect themselves from, legally, without resources from their union. I'm not saying what may or may not have happened but how would it be to face this situation without a true counsel provided to you. I would imagine self hired counsel for something of this nature would want upwards of 50K as a retainer?

mercys ghost

You are correct, it is an assumption. However, I do have hard data to show that the one non-union carrier regional airline is miles ahead of any of its competition. If your management is doing, and has done the things you say, do you honestly think for one second they would be willing to continue with the same business plan if a union were on property? I feel pretty comfortable when my assumption, and plenty of info to back it up.

mercys ghost

Anyone who is employed by a company runs the risks of termination, and that is not unique to pilots. The recurring argument I keep seeing is that having a union gives you an army of attorneys at your side. You are saying these guys cannot afford an attorney, but can afford to dump money into a union?

Meow1215

Do tell, that is allot of claims to back up.

amcnd

He’s probably talking about Air Wisconsin. Bug difference is they are privately held. They have no shareholders to account for. Just as long as they make a .0001% profit all is well...

Nevjets

There is at least one, DD. It took him many months and tens of thousands of dollars to get his job back. It’s reasonable to assume that almost no one who has been fired at Skywest can afford to spend that kind of money while out of work.

My point is that it doesn’t have to be this way for any pilot. So having it happen just once is one too many when there is a feasible alternative that also brings other value on top of just having legal representation.



Just for the record, my specific argument for ALPA is foremost the safety, security, and pilot assistance advocacy that that organization brings to the pilots. That’s not to say there also isn’t much value in having a contract legally recognized by the NMB and the representation that comes along with that. It’s not like having representation is nothing.

It’s no different than your auto insurance. If someone T-bones you at no fault of your own, your insurance company will represent your case in front of an arbitrator against the attorneys of the other driver’s insurance company. Would you rather have to either represent yourself against attorneys from the other side or have to pay out of pocket for your own attorney? Or would you rather pay insurance premiums in case you find yourself in that situation? You can afford the insurance premiums every month but most people cannot afford the out of pocket expense to pay for an attorney, especially if you are out of a job until you can win and get it back.

You can think of ALPA as an insurance policy. The big difference is that the ALPA insurance company doesn’t just represent you if you find yourself in need of representing. They also advocate for your safety and security at all levels and agencies of government.


Skywest management has had years dealing with pilot unions. It wasn’t contentious and they didn’t change their business plans. The main difference is that with a union, the pilots now get a seat at the adult table to have the adult conversations. It didn’t mean that the two side always agreed. Many times they agreed to disagree and the subject was sent to an arbitrator. If anything, it takes contention out of the picture because both sides know they have a dispute resolution mechanism. Things become more professional when disagreeing knowing that they can send it to a third party for a unbiased outcome. Skywest management are very smart and savvy, which is not necessarily a bad thing. So they are not going to do anything rash just because pilots now have more of a say in their QOL. It simply changes the relationship of one that is more of a professional type, more hands off, attorneys dealing with attorneys when needed. And management dealing with MEC reps when working out other issues. It’s in everyone’s best interest to work together. What you have without a union is basically a one way street.